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the Royal Navy would wipe the smiles off your dials.
Your navy did not wipe the smiles off our navy's face in the War of 1812. When we had like 12 war ships so; by 1865, we had a few hundred warships plus ironclads. I believe the your Royal navy would have been put to the tested by Admiral Farragut and his lads.
I would rethink your line...
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
I too do believe I have read accounts of infantry forming squares to repel charges by cavalry, but they were always in the early years. I too can't remember where, but it was a while ago.
The cavalry charge was a foolhardy move against a massed line of infantry, behind cover, with good weaponry. You see it early on, but later, the cavalry just fought as infantry, dismounting and pushing forward. It's one of the first examples, I think, of modern cavalry tactics, primarily the Air Cav. They fly in by helicopter (their horse) and fight on the ground, like infantry.
Blockade, I think your navy would have been far superior in the early years of the war, but later on, I think it might have been a far more even match. But the Royal Navy was the superior naval force in the world at the time, so it would have been interesting to see.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
As you may know, Col John Wilder was more than likely the first to use mounted infantry in the west. At Chickamuga, Wilder had planned to use the square with artillary in the center to charge Longstreet from the rear and flank. It never got a chance, due to Dana's orders to move to the rear.
Is seems to me that the weapons of the time were far better than the tactics in use.
__________________ Located near Indianapolis, home of Col. Eli Lilly and the Eli Lilly Civil War Museum
Sorry, but I think I will have to give Blockaderunner his due when it comes to the Royal Navy of the time.
It would have been an interesting match, but I think the British Tars of the period could match guns, guts, and experience against a newly expanded US Navy.
Now, it the monitor series of ironclads would have continued to expand to more deep water craft, hmmmm.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
In 1860, the last thing a sane man would do is mess with the Royal Navy. It was stretched thin, and it had long lines to keep it supplied, but it was still something to be respected and feared. You've got to think long and hard before you walk over the sawdust and throw a punch at that big guy. Usually, it doesn't work out as one would like.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
At the time of the war would the Union and Confederacy of been considered the best two military units in the world. Or would some of the countries in Europe (or anywhere else) of been considered even stronger?
In general, in the early 1860s the European professional militaries considered the French Army the best and the Austrian Army the second best in the world. The British were considered behind them, along with the Prussians, etc.
The British, the Prussians, the French, and others all had military observers here during the Civil War, official or unofficial. Opinions varied. If you winnowed out those who simply were unwilling to see anything good in America, you'd find the ratings about like this:
1861: Laughter
1862: Getting better, but bloody amateurs
1863: Hmm.....
1864: Getting better, tough fighters
1864: an incomplete; no real commentary or observation to report.
In early 1863, von Moltke sent an observer to the Confederacy. He saw the siege at Charleston, Chancellorsville, Brandy Station, and Gettysburg. He felt ANV infantry was about as good as Prussian infantry, but that Prussian cavalry was better than JEB Stuart's cavalry. He was not impressed with Confederate artillery.
Lest anyone think these armies had not seen combat:
The Crimean War involved Britain, Russia, France, Italy (or what would become Italy, anyway)
In 1859, France and Austria fought a war in Italy (with those same Italians helping the French)
Prussia fought 3 wars with Denmark from 1848-1864
and a bunch of other small actions happened involving various powers, plus the constant snall-unit brushfire wars around the globe the British and French were involved in.
By 1863-65, US and Confederate forces were pretty good, but they would not have dominated the French or the Austrians, and by 1866 the Prussians were good enough to beat the Austrians, and by 1870 to beat the French.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
I too do believe I have read accounts of infantry forming squares to repel charges by cavalry, but they were always in the early years. I too can't remember where, but it was a while ago.
The cavalry charge was a foolhardy move against a massed line of infantry, behind cover, with good weaponry. You see it early on, but later, the cavalry just fought as infantry, dismounting and pushing forward. It's one of the first examples, I think, of modern cavalry tactics, primarily the Air Cav. They fly in by helicopter (their horse) and fight on the ground, like infantry.
Instances of infantry forming square in the ACW:
1) Sherman forms his troops in square to cover the retreat from Bull Run in 1861. Shoots a foolish cavalry charge into retreat.
2) Gettysburg, 7/1/1863, near Cemetery Hill, afternoon: Buford ordered to charge, Rebels form something that might have been a square, get shot up by Buford's dismounted portion of troops.
3) New Market, 1864: During the Union cavalry charge, one unit of Rebels may have formed square. Another forms into skirmisher knots, a traditional action for skirmishers caught in the open.
4) During the retreat from Nashville, Confederate infantry attacked by Wilson forms into 3 sides of a square, gets cut up and ripped apart, while trying to cover and cross abridge over a flooded river.
That's about it for verifiable examples.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Thank you for that information Tim! I think it was the incident with Sherman that I remember reading about. Doesn't sound like it was all the prevalent in the war, but hey, old habits do die hard sometimes.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
Thank you for that information Tim! I think it was the incident with Sherman that I remember reading about. Doesn't sound like it was all the prevalent in the war, but hey, old habits do die hard sometimes.
Reliable firearms made a dense target like an infantry square terribly vulnerable. Percussion caps made them less useful; rifled muskets even more so. Breechloaders and repeaters could tear them apart from cover. Better and rifled artillery meant they could be blown to shreds from even longer ranges.
Buford had qualms about his charge at Gettysburg when it was ordered. He figured the advancing infantry would shoot his men and horses into the ground. That was why he only sent in a part of his command mounted, leaving the rest to cover his retreat after the expected repulse. When the Rebels formed square, he pulled the charge up and had the dismounted troopers use their breechloaders to shoot up the mass in front of them.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
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