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Been doing a bit of reading on numbers served/deserted/on hand etc, ( never seen a flow chart showing relative force level numbers and wonderd why)whats everyones thoughts on the mil population in 1860, and size of relative force levels this allowed the two sides to field, and how big a disadvantage, in numerical terms was the south at any given point in time, for instance 1,000,512 in May 65 on the Union roll, when CSA surrenders 445k on the role, but hardly a fraction of that paroled.
Ive got some thoughts/numbers, but has anyone wonderd about this?.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Whoa, Hanny! That's a tall order -- almost a week-to-week proposition.
By end of 1860, the US army was less than 16,000 officers and men, and they were scattered from here to Sunday. Any military type organizations were in militia companies of states and social clubs in cities.
When the CSA Congress was seated, it authorized President Davis to call up to 100,000 state militias to serve in the confederacy. Timelines become snarled and tangled after that.
Welcome back.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Welcome back. It has been a long time since I have seen a post by you.
Pertaining to your question, I would like very much to see your figures and such on the question you pose.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Hi folks, yes long time no post, hope you all are well.
Rehabs finished, nice scar from armpit to wrist on left arm, a plate some wires and panel pins, and im good to go, hopefully the typing will be better now, ie less errors and less iritation for me as i type.
Im still collecting data, but as ole says the regular army in 61 is the base line to start from, using that as a base line for desertion/awol, and E Lonns desertion in the war, it will help to put the most difficult part of the maths in context.ie the presnet for duty number is a known, its easy to add up the KIA/WIA,death by other causes numbers from the OR, but the awol/absent numbers is very vauge at present, was the fedewral Army only 620k strong in 65?, were 320 awol?, Lets see what foots gives us, page 739 vol 3, after giving us Grants close out plan, "despite heavy losses in the past nine months, over 100,000 in eastern Va alone and about that number elswhere---his total combat force was about 600,000 effectives, exclusive of reserves amounting to half as many more, while his oponent had dwindldiled to 160k of all arms".
heres one online source, http://www.civilwarhome.com/armysize.htm it looks like the OR numbers, and is easier to see at aglantz than say, Livermore numbers and losses, which is also online and does the same thing.
What i want to understand better is how Foots used the same numbers and thinks there are 900k effectives, when Long thinks its 600k.
Im looking at amazon list of admistartive historys of the AoP at present to see what i can glean.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
I'm sorry, but were you involved in some sort of auto accident?
I do hope you are pretty much over it, if that is the case, but rehab?
That must have been some accident!
Glad to have you back and look forward to debating and talking with you once again.
Please, take it easy and give yourself time to come fully back. My wife just went through an auto accident but it doesn't sound nearly as severe as what you have been through.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Foote's numbers are not likely based on his own research; i.e., he got them from someone else who, one would hope, did some thorough research.
Sounds like you've bitten off quite a chaw in looking for numbers. Good luck.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Foote's numbers are not likely based on his own research; i.e., he got them from someone else who, one would hope, did some thorough research.
Sounds like you've bitten off quite a chaw in looking for numbers. Good luck.
ole
The numbers in Foot/Mcpherson et all are are dirivates from the OR, depending if its a tri monthly filed return or whatever, the numbers they all agree on, since they all use then same source to obtain them, but then go onto use them slightly differtly in how those numbers were used.
Since Foote won many awards for his research i dont follow you coment.
__________________
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Officers Present for Duty: 20,124
Enlisted Men PfD: 475,775
Present, not fit for duty: 109,461
Absent: 331,631
Absent is generally those sent home on furlough "sick", which was essentially French Leave. At this point the absent figure is inflated by the Veteran Corps, who on reenlistment were sent home on furlough from which the vast majority never returned. This new 1st (Veteran) Corps (under Hancock) in this return only has 168 present, and would never become efficient.
Out and out deserters, of which there were maybe 200,000 in this period are included in the "Present for Duty" in the return, which I've always found odd, but has been US practice back to 1776 (when Washington thought the Desertion rate in his army too depressing for publication, and so ordered that Deserters be counted as Present).
There were thus maybe 300,000 men in the field. The sum of all the combatant formations at this point is about 250,000, the difference being largely returns from the Pacific, New Mexico, Northern etc. depts not actually engaged in the war.
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