Henry and Donelson

[30th_il]

Larry, is there much left to see in Nashville? That is one town I haven't pursued in civil war travels but I am willing to learn.

[timewalker]

I was reading Bruce Catton's Grant Takes Command and went to look up Fort Henry and Donelson on a map. When I was younger and living in Iowa, my family's favorite campground was Land Between the Lakes. When I looked up the Fort on the Map, I saw that the Forts form the base of the Land Between the Lakes. All that time I had camped and played close to all that history and never realized it. When I said something to my parents, they too were surprised. At that time, at least, the sites were certainly not publicized (this was some 30-35 years ago)

[blue_zouave]

There's nothing left of Fort Henry now, though I've had the good fortune to see the site from the river. I didn't get a chance to go to Fort Donelson on that trip.

All these battles are like stones in a stone wall. The big ones and little ones fit together to make a solid structure. Losing too many of either will make your wall crumble.

Zou

[larry_cockerham]

Originally Posted by 30th_il

Larry, is there much left to see in Nashville? That is one town I haven't pursued in civil war travels but I am willing to learn.

Boy, the Chamber of Commerce would love to get that question. I doubt their answer would have much to do with the civil war, but I'd be curious to learn if that is fact. Physically, you have to know what to look for. There are some guides available and bus tours. Much of the battlefield, a hugh area perhaps five miles across from east to west is now covered in houses, offices and businesses. The capitol and downtown Presbyterian church are still standing as is part of Ft. Negley, three of few remaining structures that actually witnessed 1865. Yes, a few homes remain, but are not overly well publicised. Metro Nashville just opened, after letting the opportunity go by for 145 years, a visitor's center at Ft. Negley. This is a huge stone fort constructed by the US Army 1862-1864. The battle didn't reach quite that far north. Shy's hill at the battle center, a small site in a residential area on Battery Lane has been preserved by the local civil war preservation society (check BNOPS website). That's the area where the Confederate line broke. Many historical roadside marker's and the cemeteries, both City and Mt. Olivet. Nearby Franklin has the Carter House and Carnton Plantation visitor centers both part of that battlefield in addition to US Army fort Grainger. Our SCV Winstead Hill site is open with monuments just south of Franklin. That's where Gen. Hood watched his men march to their death against the intrenched US Army in front of the Carter House along Columbia Pike. The Harris house, Confederate headquarters is still standing at Franklin as is Traveller's Rest, the home of Judge John Overton, which served as Confederate headquarters at Nashville. The Stones River battlefield is also worth the visit and adjacent Old Fort Park (Fort Rosecrans), just 25 miles away in Murfreesboro. The land is still here, as are the memories and signs, if you know where to look. We will welcome you! Come on down. It's not too far to Spring Hill and Columbia as well.

[ole]

Matt:

Touring Nashville can be interesting if you have a guide like Larry. Here's this hill. It's covered with fine homes and "No trespassing" signs. But if you know where to look, here's a piece of a stone wall that was there. And look, here's another hill covered with fine homes and strip malls. That is the battlefield.

Nashville is just another battlefield with 100 years of urban development covering it. Only the hills remain. And, from them, you can look at the houses below and only imagine what was. Que sera, sera.

However, if you can get to Nashville, you can get to Franklin. It is largely the same song, second verse, but there remains at Franklin some fine works and vistas where the imagination is helped by some open space. And Franklin is working on recapturing some of it.

ole

[whitworth]

Fort Henry and Fort Donelson were important in several aspects.
Militarily, because of steamboat deficiencies, the Confederacy could not hold many forts near inland waterways for long. Nashville and Memphis would fall because Union forces could steam right up to the defenses. After 1862 the Confederacy had little or nothing to protect the inland waters from Union assault.

Grant and the Union army had the advantage in bringing the battle to the point of attack, both in supply and troops.
It also signified, though insignificantly regarded, that early in the war, the Confederacy would never be 13 states, as indicated in their battle flag.
The early loss of New Orleans and Memphis meant the Confederacy was working on borrowed time.
Grant would take much time to capture Vicksburg, with many individual failures, but the Confederacy never had the strength to drive the Union army out of Memphis and north to Kentucky.

Once the Union forces got a lodgment on the Mississippi River, in Memphis, New Orleans, and Nashville, it was only time before the U.S. Army would assault Vicksburg and Georgia.

[J_Man0507]

I to wonder why Mr. Harrison puts this battle as only fourth in importance, and what his top three are. If I were to rate a battles or campaigns in importance, the Henry/Donelson campaign would have to fall at no less than number two, with perhaps New Orleans squeaking by for first, for its taking away the South's most populous city and one of its major seaports.

As originally planned, Henry was the primary objective, and Donelson a secondary, though I think in Grant's mind, both were his targets. Henry was captured, and he moved on Donelson, which scared the jibblies out of Halleck, who wanted him to entrench at Henry. But I surmise Grant knew the importance of opening these two rivers and meant to strike a major blow at the rebellion in the west.

By taking these forts, Grant outflanked Polk in Columbus, forcing him to abandon his "Gibraltar of the West" and it forced A.S. Johnston to abandon Bowling Green, Nashville, and leave Kentucky and Tennessee in Union hands. It was ground that they were never able to get back. There were incursions into the states (Perryville, Stones River, Nashville, etc), but the Confederacy was never able to get control over Kentucky, and they never were able to get back firm control over Tennessee. Grant knew what he was doing, and I think this is, if not the most important, and the second most important campaign of the entire war. But that is just MHO.

[ole]

Amen, J Man.

ole

[larry_cockerham]

Originally Posted by J_Man0507

I to wonder why Mr. Harrison puts this battle as only fourth in importance, and what his top three are. If I were to rate a battles or campaigns in importance, the Henry/Donelson campaign would have to fall at no less than number two, with perhaps New Orleans squeaking by for first, for its taking away the South's most populous city and one of its major seaports.

As originally planned, Henry was the primary objective, and Donelson a secondary, though I think in Grant's mind, both were his targets. Henry was captured, and he moved on Donelson, which scared the jibblies out of Halleck, who wanted him to entrench at Henry. But I surmise Grant knew the importance of opening these two rivers and meant to strike a major blow at the rebellion in the west.

By taking these forts, Grant outflanked Polk in Columbus, forcing him to abandon his "Gibraltar of the West" and it forced A.S. Johnston to abandon Bowling Green, Nashville, and leave Kentucky and Tennessee in Union hands. It was ground that they were never able to get back. There were incursions into the states (Perryville, Stones River, Nashville, etc), but the Confederacy was never able to get control over Kentucky, and they never were able to get back firm control over Tennessee. Grant knew what he was doing, and I think this is, if not the most important, and the second most important campaign of the entire war. But that is just MHO.

Sir, do you have knowledge of Ft. Heiman, across the river from Ft. Henry?

[ole]

Heiman was a "fort" in name only. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I know of no shots fired from there during the reduction of Henry. As I see it, if Ft. Heiman had been a reality, Foote would have had a lot more trouble in opening the Tennessee.

ole