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Larry, you sum*****, you know perfectly well what I was saying ... or trying to say. We have no better example of a real man than the grunt. Whatever color he wore or whatever conflict he was in. America started with the grunts and, godwilling, will not end because of a lack of them.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Ole, I salute the grunts, black, blue and gray. I'll even buy you a toast should you venture this far south at a future date. I just traded my old heatless, airless, oil leaking plastric pick-up for a sligtly newer suv, not an scv, with plenty of room for hauling yankees around. Discoveries are still going forward with regards to the battle at Sugar Creek. Interest seems to be building towards preserving the site.
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Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
I think Lee's aims were stated. It seemed that his stated goal in invading was threefold.
-First was to get the armies out of war ravaged Virginia and let the farmers who were still left, or rather their families, harvest what crops they were able to plant that year. I don't think it was meant to be a short raid, but rather a protracted campaign. Now I dont' think that would have worked, because he would be too far from his base of supplies and would have to live off the land and scrounge for ammunition, all with a larger army in his rear who can be easier supplied.
-Second, he wanted to try and relieve pressure from Vicksburg. If, Lee seemed to think, he could win a decisive victory on Northern soil, he just might be able to draw troops away from the beleaguered city and save Pemberton's army. It was a far cry from ever happening, seeing as by the time the armies collided in PA., Vicksburg was all but done for. But Lee hoped to possibly achieve that, it seems.
-And last, he hoped to at the least defeat the AoP on their turf and possibly force peace negotiations. I think many officers in the Confederacy were at this point doubtful of foreign intervention, so they realized it was all going to be up to them. If they could defeat Meade, they might be able to bring an end to the war.
Now, I think Lee was too optimistic in his plans. He couldn't have sustained a prolonged campaign in the North, b/c he wouldn't have been able to readily obtain supplies for his men, esp. ammunition. If, by chance, the AoP had lost on the day three, and they had to pull back, any supply depots would have been destroyed by the retreating Federals, and if Lee had, for example, tried to assault Washington, he would have been in a heap of hurt when he ran out of bullets and shells. While admirable, his plan was flawed. But he did seem to have one. He wasn't, in my opinion, just aimlessly wandering the Pennsylvania Dutch Country.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
All Lee's reasons make sense, but whenever I see a list of reasons justifying a desire or plan, I start looking the real one.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
In June 1863, Lee wrote the following to Secretary of War Seddon - “As far as I can judge, there is nothing to be gained by this army remaining quietly on the defensive, which it must do unless it can be re-enforced. I am aware that there is difficulty and hazard in taking the aggressive with so large an army in its front, intrenched behind a river, where it cannot be advantageously attacked. Unless it can be drawn out in a position to be assailed, it will take its own time to prepare and strengthen itself to renew its advance upon Richmond, and force this army back within the intrenchments of that city.” This is as succinct a statement of Lee's aim in invading Pennsylvania. There is no mention here of relieving Virginia's farmers or Vicksburg.
He may well have suggested in his post-battle report that getting the AoP out of Virginia was one of his principal aims, but this suggests to me that he was trying to salvage what little he could from a campaign that failed in its only true purpose.
I am minded of Montgomery's post-war contention that the Normandy Campaign went entirely according to his plan.
I am minded of Montgomery's post-war contention that the Normandy Campaign went entirely according to his plan.
Well, it mostly did.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I the earlier post on this thread various members point to Harrisburg as Lee's point on the map as his intended objective as he enter PA.
I agree that Harrisburg was the place he wanted to reach before confronting the AoP. The members pointed out that Harrisburg was a major East/West junction for rail service in the east.
No one mention Camp Curtin just outside side of Harrisburg. It was more then just a camp to train recruits. It was a major supply camp, a Hospital and prisoner of war camp too.
Lee could have done some one stop shopping for his army before he confronted the AoP.
I bet the camp was as important to Lee as were the rail lines were in his over all plan..
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"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
Re: SerjeantWildgoose #36 Post. Lee stipulates that he must remain on the defensive, If he is not reinforced. Was he referring to the nominal reinforceing the units already in the ANV or was it a reference to his proposed plan of stripping the Carolina's and Ga. of troops to form another Army (under the command of Beauregard) to be stationed forward to Culpepper Ct. House?
In fact, in the end, it seems that Lee took "the aggressive" with little or no reinforcements of his own Army.
Re: SerjeantWildgoose #36 Post. Lee stipulates that he must remain on the defensive, If he is not reinforced. Was he referring to the nominal reinforceing the units already in the ANV or was it a reference to his proposed plan of stripping the Carolina's and Ga. of troops to form another Army (under the command of Beauregard) to be stationed forward to Culpepper Ct. House?
In fact, in the end, it seems that Lee took "the aggressive" with little or no reinforcements of his own Army.
Hmm, probably not as much as he wanted, but he definitely had some.
For example, Stuart has seven cavalry brigades for the Gettysburg Campaign. I don't recall him ever having more than three before that.
He also seems to have more infantry than he has had at any time since Fredericksburg in December However, D. H. Hill down in the Carolinas has been playing "The Old Army Game" with Lee over troops, and Lee seems to have been coming out with the short end, getting brigades back that were not originally his, and seem to have been not as good or experienced.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
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