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View Poll Results: Who was the better general between these two Great Warriors?
"What do I know for I am east of those mountains and Forrest never came east to play with the big dogs!!"
I grew up east of those same mountains and was once as learned as you concerning the western theatre. I invite you to study the man Forrest and decide for yourself.
I have no disrespect for the legacy of Grant and Lee in this war at all, I merely wish to point out that there were fighting men besides the ones you champion.
As for Forrest, the records are there.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Lee and Grant are essentially the equivalent of Eisenhower during WWII. Forrest is the equivalent of Patton. Both Lee and Grant owned slaves too.....probably the only completely white hat during the Civil War goes to Clara Barton.
Pulling Lee and Grant up to Eisenhower's level would take a mighty strong rope. I don't see that happening.
You might compare Forrest to Patton in terms of gusto and daring, but that's about as far as that goes. Forrest was no match for Patton's intellect, though they both favored handguns. Both men knew how to praise and gain favor from their superiors. As a reward for that skill, Patton played a lot of polo and went to teas rather than battle. Forrest, for his deft handling of Bragg, spent much time camping in the woods away from the main events. Both were called on for their desired skills when the chips were down. Eisenhower needed to take Germany and Hood needed his butt saved from annihilation.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
"What do I know for I am east of those mountains and Forrest never came east to play with the big dogs!!"
I grew up east of those same mountains and was once as learned as you concerning the western theatre. I invite you to study the man Forrest and decide for yourself.
I have no disrespect for the legacy of Grant and Lee in this war at all, I merely wish to point out that there were fighting men besides the ones you champion.
As for Forrest, the records are there.
Remember the BIG DOGS are in the east!
Larry!!
Did you read my see my orginal post to you?
I wanted to get you in a fighting mood but you throw this nice post back at me. Now feel some guilt.
Do think Forrest was better then old jeb Stuart?
I do not know why Shelby Foote thought so much of Forrest either.
I wanted to get you in a fighting mood but you throw this nice post back at me. Now feel some guilt.
Do think Forrest was better then old jeb Stuart?
I do not know why Shelby Foote thought so much of Forrest either.
I'll take Stuart anyday over your Forrest!!
I don't think Stuart and Forrest can really be compared fairly. They did different things. Stuart performed the traditional cavalry functions of reconnaissance and screening. Forrest wasn't that good at those functions, but he was good at raiding and using his men as mounted infantry.
Campaigns: Grant - 5-0 [Fts Henry & Donelson, Vicksburg, Chattanooa, Overland, Appomattox]
Lee - 2-4 [Seven Days, 2nd Bull Run, Antietam, Gettysburg, Overland, Appomattox]
Regards,
Cash
You forgot about Gran't first campaign against Vicksburg- a failure....
...and you must have a screw loose to consider the Overland Campaign (& related actions) a "success":
Gran't losses:
Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor.........50,000
Several other minor engagements............5-10,000
Petersburg, June 1864..............................12,000
...so Grant lost about 70,000 men in two months.
A whole army's worth of men.
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You forgot about Gran't first campaign against Vicksburg- a failure....=
Those who actually know their Civil War history know there was only one campaign for Vicksburg mounted by Grant. It lasted from December of 1862 to 4 July 1863.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
...and you must have a screw loose to consider the Overland Campaign (& related actions) a "success":
Gran't losses:
Wilderness, Spotsylvania, Cold Harbor.........50,000
Several other minor engagements............5-10,000
Petersburg, June 1864..............................12,000
...so Grant lost about 70,000 men in two months.
A whole army's worth of men.
People who don't know what they're talking about will normally glom onto one statistic and believe it defines success or failure when in fact it doesn't. Those who know what they're talking about know that a campaign is a success when its objectives are achieved. Those who know what they're talking about know the Overland Campaign was a success. Those who don't know what they're talking about will think it wasn't.
Campaigns: Grant - 5-0 [Fts Henry & Donelson, Vicksburg, Chattanooa, Overland, Appomattox]
Lee - 2-4 [Seven Days, 2nd Bull Run, Antietam, Gettysburg, Overland, Appomattox]
Casualty rate [killed and wounded] suffered:
Grant - 15%
Lee - 20.2%
Casualty rate [killed and wounded] inflicted on the enemy:
Grant - 20.7%
Lee - 15.4%
Note, Grant also captured three entire armies (14,000 at Fort Donelson, 29,500 at Vicksburg, and about 35,000 during the Appomattox Campaign) that aren't reflected in the casualties inflicted on the enemy.
Regards,
Cash
To be fair, I'd judge the Overland conflicts a draw as far as the battles, tho in the end Grant out flanked the Rebs.
I didn't see the box score for armies defeated. Might that be 3-0 in favor of Gen. Grant?
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
To be fair, I'd judge the Overland conflicts a draw as far as the battles, tho in the end Grant out flanked the Rebs.
When judging the success or failure of a campaign, the results of the battles are of secondary importance. What is important is if the campaign achieved its objectives, and the Overland Campaign did so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samgrant
I didn't see the box score for armies defeated. Might that be 3-0 in favor of Gen. Grant?
He was the only general in the Civil War to capture an entire army, and he did so three times.
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