Honest Abe - Honest McClellan

[Borderruffian]

[quote=5fish]

Originally Posted by Battalion

The North also supported slavery-

Yes, there was slavery north of Dixie and in showing it you think you have lessen the south's dirty hands in slavery while tarnishing the north's righteous attitude about slavery.

It does not tarnish the north righteous march to end slavery or lessen the south zeal for slavery. You did not explain slavery was fading away in many of those states you mention for it was not economically viable anymore.

I amazed you would even try to justify slavery in any form no matter how southern one might be. It like saying cigarettes don't cause cancer.

Slavery dirty our nation's ideals and the hand of Lincoln swept it away. Note: Our Nation!

Note: Slavery was fading away in many parts of the south before the civil war for it just was not an economically viable way to farm or use for business anymore.

Just me but most of the accounts I've read written by both Reb's and Yank's of the front line nature. Most of them gave not a Tinker's da*n about the slavery issue unless they happened to fire eaters or abolitionist in nature before the war.

[ole]

Amen, Border. The grunt simply got caught up in the excitement of the moment. Young and stupid is inevitable and most likely eternal.

ole

[unionblue]

Ole, Borderruffian,

I think not.

I am of the opinion that soldiers on both sides had a pretty good idea what they were fighting for.

The Southern soldier, I am of the view he fought for a way of life, that happened to include the institution of slavery with the racial control and social content that institution embraced. Why shouldn't he? In his view, it was right, natural and a part of his everyday life.

There may be some merit that the Northern soldier did not especially concern himself with the plight of the slaves at the start of the war, but in my own opinion, most came to the realization that secession and the war was brought on by the institution and had to be eliminated.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

[Borderruffian]

Was slavery an issue...yes certainly on the Southern end it was, (with the snake oil vendors who engineered secession and the war).

But Seth who's got a 40 acre subsistance farm and no slaves and who has bought the snake oil vendors States Rights you are being invaded line. Really is not that concerned with whether Col. Buford keeps his plantation.

I think your placing a fair amount of blame on the rank and file CS grunt.

And more than a tad bit much nobility on the shoulders of the rank and file US grunt.

[johan_steele]

I had a reflective moment last night over a scotch after dinner and got to thinking about various letters. The more I thought about it the fewer political opinions that were positive came to mind. It's entirely possible I may be getting old and memory fading but the more I think about it and compare it to my own service... hell I even went so far as to pull up my old journal and look at the thousand or so entries from my time in service. I'm pretty contemptuos of politicians, always have been any who have seen me on the boards know that. But it doesn't take much figuring to know a politicians motivation; if I have an idea what politicians I think many a man on the sharp end were wise enough to understand the motivations of the men who sent them there.

I have read a relitively small number of CS letters, less than 10% of the total... those I read were of men who were not fools or unintelligent. I can't recall a single one who was impressed by the CS govt.

As to slavery and the average US soldier... I wonder how much slavery the men of the AoP really saw... now those western boys saw a whole lot more of it and I have no doubt the men who saw it firsthand at its worst were forever changed by the experiance. The letters detailing the torture devices, yes I said torture devices, at Cobb's Plantation in Georgia 140+ years later they are no less horrific. Men who saw the worst of slavery believed they had seen the worst humanity was capable of. The man who said this had been at Shiloh, Corith & Iuka, and the major engagements on the way to Atlanta. A man who had seen the worst man could do to kill each other and he believed he had seen the worst in Cobb's plantation. That is very telling to me... he was not alone.

Cobb's plantation was mentioned in countless letters of men of Sherman's Army. Any hard core study of the campaign will find reference to it. I think any man ho saw slavery first hand... and saw the plantations. Money, lots of money and they knew it. They recognized the names of owners and they understood. We may not see it seperated by 140 years but it was painfully obvious to those men of 15th Corps and the rest of the AoT. They saw it firsthand and understood slavery must be destroyed and its vestiges swept away.

[larry_cockerham]

Battalion wrote:

"...and the South saw it as an invasion of their independent country. "

Sir, you are now making an unwarranted leap of faith in interpretation. No where near all the soldiers in the Confederate gave a **** about the south being an independent country. They were more focused on the gunfire. "the South" is a rather broad non specific hard to find term, wouldn't you think?

[larry_cockerham]

5fish wrote: "like one can't steal one's stuff"..... Apparently O.J. Simpson has just attempted to prove otherwise. (I know, go back to sleep.)

[larry_cockerham]

[quote=samgrant][quote=larry_cockerham]Sam, your statement is quite correct.

Narrow your focus a bit to the farmer with 200 acres.

When the army (either Federal OR Confederate) crossed the fence stealing his hogs and knocking down his corn, 'borrowing' a horse or two, they were perceived by the farmer to be invading.

"trespassing"

Yep, that too.

[larry_cockerham]

Originally Posted by unionblue

Ole, Borderruffian,

I think not.

I am of the opinion that soldiers on both sides had a pretty good idea what they were fighting for.

The Southern soldier, I am of the view he fought for a way of life, that happened to include the institution of slavery with the racial control and social content that institution embraced. Why shouldn't he? In his view, it was right, natural and a part of his everyday life.

There may be some merit that the Northern soldier did not especially concern himself with the plight of the slaves at the start of the war, but in my own opinion, most came to the realization that secession and the war was brought on by the institution and had to be eliminated.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

Looks as if we still haven't resolved your inability to see reason through southern eyes. May God continue to bless your spirit! Mostly Southern soldiers were literally fighting for life, their's in particular. A "way of life" is a bit of a lofty term for many Johnny rebs.

[larry_cockerham]

Our esteemed gen. Steele wrote:

"Cobb's plantation was mentioned in countless letters of men of Sherman's Army. Any hard core study of the campaign will find reference to it. I think any man ho saw slavery first hand... and saw the plantations. Money, lots of money and they knew it. "


The plantations were relatively few in number and certainly weren't on a "tour" that the average soldier prior to the war would have followed or bought a ticket for if he worked in a shop in town or worked his 1-40 or more acres in the hill country. Plantations were cotton and rice, not much of which grows in rock or in cool temperatures. Slavery was not nearly so close to an 1861 soldier as you might hope. If he didn't own one, he didn't care at all about the others. If he had two, he was a wealthy man with enough sense to make the money required for the purchase, so, yes, he probably had an opinion, at least from his own selfish perspective. Was he an abolitionist? I'll take five cents a man against your tally of southern soldiers who could have spelled that word.