Civil War History - General DiscussionFor Discussions on Civil War Era Personalities, Politics, Issues, Campaigns, Battles, and more. Serious Civil War Discussions Only Please! All other posts will be deleted.
"Invading" is a nice word for propaganda purposes. Although the "invasion" was more a matter of crossing a number of farms on the way to taking control of some location vital to the war effort of either side, those who farmed the land being crossed might be forgiven for considering it an invasion.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
They were not "invading". Going into a foreign country is 'invading". The Federals were simply putting down a rebellion in their own country.
...and the South saw it as an invasion of their independent country.
Lets look at the definition of invasion-
An act or instance of invading or entering as an enemy, esp. by an army. Entrance as if to take possession or overrun. The act of invading, especially the entrance of an armed force into a territory to conquer. The act of invading; the act of an army that invades for conquest or plunder.
-looks like an invasion whether you consider the South in rebellion...or having legally seceded.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
If it salves ones conscience to view the reestablishment of Constitutional Authority in all the states within the Union as an 'invasion' I certainly will try and not quibble too much over the precise semantics of this particular tempest in a teapot.
There was no invasion for you one cannot invade one's own nation, like one can't steal one's stuff. Our government had to clean out the ruling oligarchy that had usurped the power of each southern state government from the people. A ruling oligarchy that supported the atrocity of slavery.
Have any of you ever read any of the late 19th century "what if's" had the south won. In most "what if" the south breaks up into smaller nations and non democratic one's. I believe you "good old boys" who think the south was just, stopped fooling yourselves. If the south had won, the south would have broken up into a bunch of small kingdoms.(Dictatorships)
There was no invasion for you one cannot invade one's own nation, like one can't steal one's stuff. Our government had to clean out the ruling oligarchy that had usurped the power of each southern state government from the people. A ruling oligarchy that supported the atrocity of slavery.
The North also supported slavery-
*Voting for an amendment to the US Constitution for the perpetuation of slavery (March 1861)
*Protected the institution in Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, and parts of Louisiana and Virginia (7 states). About 800,000 slaves.
*Extensive use of slave labor during the war for the construction of earthworks and forts.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
I am willing to bet that amendment in March of 1861 was passed in a last ditch effort to avoid Civil War.
I believe slavery had to be protected in those areas as the law had not yet been changed.
I have read accounts, such as in DeForest's "A Volunteer's Adventures" that some blacks were paid for working on earthworks etc...
The Confederacy only excisted in the minds of its citizens and leaders. It was never recognized by the US Government or any foreign power which makes it just a bunch of states in rebellion and nothing more.
If calling the war an inavasion helps you champions of the South to swallow the bitter pill of defeat every morning I guess thats your business. However it does not change the FACT that it was, to any normal persons interpritation, quelling a rebellion within the US Governments own boundries. How can a Government invade its own territory?
[quote=larry_cockerham]Sam, your statement is quite correct.
Narrow your focus a bit to the farmer with 200 acres.
When the army (either Federal OR Confederate) crossed the fence stealing his hogs and knocking down his corn, 'borrowing' a horse or two, they were perceived by the farmer to be invading. [quote]
"trespassing"
__________________
-
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
[quote=Battalion]The North also supported slavery-
Yes, there was slavery north of Dixie and in showing it you think you have lessen the south's dirty hands in slavery while tarnishing the north's righteous attitude about slavery.
It does not tarnish the north righteous march to end slavery or lessen the south zeal for slavery. You did not explain slavery was fading away in many of those states you mention for it was not economically viable anymore.
I amazed you would even try to justify slavery in any form no matter how southern one might be. It like saying cigarettes don't cause cancer.
Slavery dirty our nation's ideals and the hand of Lincoln swept it away. Note: Our Nation!
Note: Slavery was fading away in many parts of the south before the civil war for it just was not an economically viable way to farm or use for business anymore.
The North supported slavery? I wouldn't go that far. Some in the North were willing to compromise on the issue so as to avoid civil war, yes. Lincoln wasn't going to touch it and had said as much.
Nobody is saying that Northerners weren't racist. It is quite clear that many were. But to use this to say that the North supported slavery? Come on.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
I am willing to bet that amendment in March of 1861 was passed in a last ditch effort to avoid Civil War.
Absotively! It was one of the last of the many concessions offered to the slaveocracy in an attempt to quiet the talk of secession.
Can't say for sure whether the slaveocracy's refusal was because a) they had determined to go out, no matter what, b) they didn't secede because of threats to slavery, c) the amendment didn't say anything about making slave states of the territories, or d) they had determined to go out, no matter what.
Quote:
The North also supported slavery-
*Voting for an amendment to the US Constitution for the perpetuation of slavery (March 1861) See above. Lincoln was prepared to sign it, but the seceding states walked out first.*Protected the institution in Maryland, Delaware, Kentucky, Missouri, Tennessee, and parts of Louisiana and Virginia (7 states). About 800,000 slaves. It wan't so much "protected" as it was let alone--as the constitution said--where there was no military excuse to emancipate the slave.
*Extensive use of slave labor during the war for the construction of earthworks and forts. This ain't exactly supporting slavery. Before the EP was enacted and interpretations reached the Union armies, a slave's master was paid for the slave's work (at least in the West); the freedman was paid directly; those whose status was in doubt had to wait for their pay until their status could be determined. Someone got paid for black labor. It shows me that property rights in slaves were respected, per law, until the Confiscation Acts.
These are not evidence of support. They do show that the north recognized that it couldn't legally emancipate slaves without a constitutional amendment--but it could as a military measure during a rebellion.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
