Gen. Lee's -- "If Practical" Orders

[ole]

Funny how we can ride roughshod over facts and figures and then stub our collective toes over "if practicable."

Lee indicated that he would very much like to have that hill as part of Ewell's assignment. But he didn't expect Ewell to take it if, by the time he got there, half the Union Army was on top of it. That would put it in the impracticable category.

Unfortunately, Ewell's interpretation--his discretion, if you will--was that his men were far too tired to make the attempt. Taking the hill was not practicable.

A pre-battle pep-talk by Vince Lombardi might have made a difference.

ole

[ole]

Forrest, by contrast, to my knowledge, was never quoted with that phrase, though Forrest, by all accounts, was no Lee.

Forrest was usually where he could see if his orders were practicable or not. Although I must allow that issuing orders for 1500 men is considerably different than issuing orders for 50,000.

ole

[whitworth]

Report of Lieut. Gen. Richard S. Ewell, C. S. Army, commanding
Second Army Corps.
"The enemy had fallen back to a commanding position known as Cemetery Hill, south of Gettysburg, and quickly showed a formida-ble front there. On entering the town I received a message from the commanding general to attack this hill, if I conld do so to ad-vantage. I could not bring artillery to bear on it, and all the troops with me were jaded by twelve hours’ marching and fighting, and I
was notified that General Johnson’s division (the only one of my corps that had not been engaged) was close to the town.
Cemetery Hill was not assailable from the town, and I determined, with Johnson’s division, to take possession of a wooded hill to my left, on a line with and commanding Cemetery Hill. Before Johnson got up, the enemy was reported moving to outflank our extreme left and I could see what seemed to be his skirmishers in that direction.
Before this report could be investigated by Lieut. T. T. Turner, aide-de-camp of my staff, and Lieut. Robert D. Early, sent for that purpose,and Johnson placed in position, the night was far advanced..."
***

If one is to blame Ewell for not attacking Cemetery Hill immediately, then one must not read Gen. Ewell's OR (Gettysburg report) to General Lee. If Lee found any fault in Ewell's conduct, he would have found it here and replaced General Ewell, after or even during the battle, via preliminary reports. General Trimble was available, and he was always ready to attack. He always said so.

Some contend Ewell should have attacked Cemetery Hill, immediately. He did not and said why in his report.
If Ewell had no good reason, why did not General Robert E. Lee fire Ewell. Great generals should know incompetency when they see it?

[matthew mckeon]

Lee, of course, did fire Ewell later.

Corps commander was one of the most responsible posts in either army. In the ANV, Lee organized his army into only 2 or 3 major sections(excluding cavalry). These men had to exercise their own discretion and few were up to that level of responsibility. Lee's problem is, he didn't have a lot to choose from. Trimble was not corps commander material. Willingness to attack blindly was not the quality called for. Early was probably the only possible candidate.

Ewell made a decision, after a victorious day, and a successful march of many days. In hindsight, we think its wrong, but on the ground at the time, for Lee to suddenly fire Ewell, isn't a plausible scenario.

[larry_cockerham]

Originally Posted by ole

Forrest was usually where he could see if his orders were practicable or not. Although I must allow that issuing orders for 1500 men is considerably different than issuing orders for 50,000.

ole

In Forrest's defense (imagine that), he issued orders to as many as 8,000 men several times in the Tennessee campaign of 1864. Yet, he was no Lee.

[larry_cockerham]

Originally Posted by samgrant

I've also seen variations of the "if". Most commonly "if practicable" -as in Order 191, part of which below:


6. General Walker, with his division, after accomplishing the object in which he is now engaged, will cross the Potomac at Cheek's Ford, ascend its right bank to Lovettsville, take possession of Loudoun Heights, if practicable, by Friday morning, Key's Ford on his left, and the road between the end of the mountain and the Potomac on his right. He will, as far as practicable, cooperate with General McLaws and Jackson, and intercept retreat of the enemy.

Back to the dictionary Larry.

Sam, you reckon practical and practicable are the same words? Practicable might be the yankee version?

[5fish]

It becomes obvious that Gen. Lee did use the phrase "If practical" in an uncommon matter.

Again, If we know this would not his subordinates know this and learn how to interpret Gen, Lee's orders. They had three plus years to learn Gen. Lee's way.

I set a read that Gen. Lee's subordinates have trouble understanding his ambiguous orders. I then said after year three years and no one has learned how to read Gen. Lee's orders.

Now the question becomes communication issues within the AoNV. Was Gen. Lee so unapproachable to ask him questions about his orders.

Note: Things to think about.. Hidden by Lee's mythos.

[5fish]

It becomes obvious that Gen. Lee did use the phrase "If practical" in an uncommon matter.

Again, If we know this would not his subordinates know this and learn how to interpret Gen, Lee's orders. They had three plus years to learn Gen. Lee's way.

I set a read that Gen. Lee's subordinates have trouble understanding his ambiguous orders. I then said after year three years and no one has learned how to read Gen. Lee's orders.

Now the question becomes communication issues within the AoNV. Was Gen. Lee so unapproachable to ask him questions about his orders.

Note: Things to think about.. Hidden by Lee's mythos.

[samgrant]

Originally Posted by larry_cockerham

Sam, you reckon practical and practicable are the same words? Practicable might be the yankee version?

I don't think either is reb or yank speak. I just have found "practicable" often in quotes of Lee's orders, and was surprised the first time because I didn't know that it was a word. I'm not sure if I have ever, in fact, seen "if practical" in Lee's orders.

[5fish]

Originally Posted by samgrant

I don't think either is reb or yank speak. I just have found "practicable" often in quotes of Lee's orders, and was surprised the first time because I didn't know that it was a word. I'm not sure if I have ever, in fact, seen "if practical" in Lee's orders.

I do believe you are right..