Gen. Lee's -- "If Practical" Orders

[larry_cockerham]

Lee was a lot closer the surface of the water than most of his contemporaries. One would have expected that. He was a very well educated man of the upper crust of society, both political and civil. Alas, as you've just alluded, he wasn't completely a saint either. The term human comes to mind. Lee's attitude toward blacks, while marginally unbiased at best, was repeated hundreds of thousands of times by his countrymen, both south and north. Racism was the norm in 1865. It only slowly improves.

[samgrant]

Here's one man's (Thomas B. Buell in The Warrior Generals) nutshell view:

"He was committed to preserving the status quo, his vision was locked firmly in the past, and he sacrificed his army to protect the priviledges of the oligarchy to which he belonged. Lee's fundamental strategy was fighting for the sake of fighting, surrender was never an option if the war could still be prolonged, and in the end he destroyed his state trying to save it."

[J_Man0507]

Everybody wants a hero, somebody to adore and to, for lack of a better word, worship. But its true. Many out there practically worship General Lee. He was a good general, to be sure, and a superb tactician. But like any other human, he had his failings. And it is unfortunate that he has become such an idol, because I don't think Lee would want to be remembered that way. But what all historians should remember, and this is something I was taught at university, you have to remember that they were human too, and they made made mistakes just like we do today. They weren't perfect, no matter how hard we want them to be.

[cw1865]

Originally Posted by J_Man0507

Everybody wants a hero, somebody to adore and to, for lack of a better word, worship. But its true. Many out there practically worship General Lee. He was a good general, to be sure, and a superb tactician. But like any other human, he had his failings. And it is unfortunate that he has become such an idol, because I don't think Lee would want to be remembered that way. But what all historians should remember, and this is something I was taught at university, you have to remember that they were human too, and they made made mistakes just like we do today. They weren't perfect, no matter how hard we want them to be.

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend!

[J_Man0507]

Originally Posted by cw1865

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend!

You hit the nail on the head CW. The nail on the head.

[5fish]

Originally Posted by cw1865

When the legend becomes fact, print the legend!

No! a little honesty in the legend would be nice. I do not want to belittle Gen. Lee or even take away his saintliness but the romantic legend that embraces him clouds history and leaves questions of why during some events of the civil war.

We will always love legend..

[5fish]

Originally Posted by samgrant

Here's one man's (Thomas B. Buell in The Warrior Generals) nutshell view:

"He was committed to preserving the status quo, his vision was locked firmly in the past, and he sacrificed his army to protect the priviledges of the oligarchy to which he belonged. Lee's fundamental strategy was fighting for the sake of fighting, surrender was never an option if the war could still be prolonged, and in the end he destroyed his state trying to save it."

Much truth in these words.

[5fish]

I have questions about the phrase "if practical". I believe the whole idea of Gen. Lee try to promote initiative in his subordinates may be part of his romantic legend.

Look at his first two corp commanders Gen. Jackson and Gen. Longstreet. As far as I can tell they did not issue discretionary orders to their subordinates. They gave orders with little or no wiggle room in them. They did not create environments for initiative.

The legend clouds the truth.

One historian claims the phrase "if practical" was Gen. Lee being polite. Think about it?

I would bet no one has ever study the history behind the phrase "if practical" or the original military purpose for the phrase, or when the phrase should be used in an order, or the military meaning behind those two words in the 19th century.

I read another order with the phrase "if practical" in it and it implied that after the objectives were met then do this if practical. The general in this order was not Gen. Lee.

Simple put Gen. Lee's direct subordinates did not promote initiative taking and no one knows the history behind those two words "if practical" and the legend clouds the truth.

[larry_cockerham]

My old dicitionary (new when I bought it) claims that practical is the result of comparing an actual experience with previously expressed ideals or speculations (paraphrased a bit).

I suspect that was the spirit in which Lee delivered his orders. Whether it was 'tradition' or not to include the phrase, would of course be a mildly interesting research topic.

That brings me at least to the thought that an order given in a complex battlefield directive, as presumeably the charge at Gettysburg was given, depended on considerable coordination of timing and location to have a chance in ---- of succeeding. If a practical minded young general observed that this was no place to be and ducked or diverted his men for survival, then that action was a bit of a hindrance to any potential success of the original order.

Lee was traditionally held in perception to be a man who should have well understood that concept. If so, why would he use the phrase ' if practical'? Was it something he could do when he knew options on the field were available? At Gettysburg, he would doubtless have thought otherwise.

Forrest, by contrast, to my knowledge, was never quoted with that phrase, though Forrest, by all accounts, was no Lee.

[samgrant]

I've also seen variations of the "if". Most commonly "if practicable" -as in Order 191, part of which below:


6. General Walker, with his division, after accomplishing the object in which he is now engaged, will cross the Potomac at Cheek's Ford, ascend its right bank to Lovettsville, take possession of Loudoun Heights, if practicable, by Friday morning, Key's Ford on his left, and the road between the end of the mountain and the Potomac on his right. He will, as far as practicable, cooperate with General McLaws and Jackson, and intercept retreat of the enemy.

Back to the dictionary Larry.