Robert E. Lee's-- Uniform/Surrender

[J_Man0507]

Originally Posted by 5fish

To all,

I agree that Gen. Lee had all the appropriate uniforms for his status within the confederate army; but all the eye wittnesses keep refering to it as a new uniform. These eye wittnesses are themselves military officers and most of them should be able to tell if a uniform is new or not.

We have only questions until we know the history behind the uniform Gen. Lee at appomattox in April 1865.

5fish

But the question still is, was it brand new, or had it just never been seen before. I have shirts that I have bought, but i didn't wear them for a year or so. They just hung in my closet. Then one day, I see it, and think, hey, I think that I will wear that shirt out tonight. One of my friends sees it later and asks "hey, is that a new shirt, cause I haven't seen you wear it before." What do I say? Oh, its new, because I have never worn it, but have had it for a while, or do I say that no, I have had it for while.

This is why I proposed the theory that he got the uniform ordered sometime in 1862 as Davis' militiary advisor, but never got a chance to wear it because he was given command of the AoNV and what kind of general is going to wear such an elaborate uniform in the field (besides McClellan and Hancock the Superb)? I think he had it for awhile, but never wore it, and this was the occasion to bring it out.

[5fish]

Amazing!

!32 visitors and no one has any detail information about the uniform Gen. Lee. wore that fateful day.

Here is another question I always wanted to know the answer to. Who were the five union generals that turned down the job to to replace Gen. Hooker as commander of the AoP and why?

In the end Gen. Meade took the job and went on the lead the union victory at Gettysburg.

[larry_cockerham]

J - Man, you used, I believe, the word 'traitor' in your earlier post. The quote you just posted is one I remember from his speech to his army prior to the surrender. Remember that a surrender of one major US Army to another had no precedent. I think that was some of Lee's reluctance to predict the outcome. Grant, for whatever reason, showed considerable restraint and a clear path for resolution of the event so as not to make more enemies nor commit the US Government to making any sort of post war contributions to the welfare of the defeated citizenry. They were apparently a lot smarter than some of our contemporaries.

[larry_cockerham]

Originally Posted by J_Man0507

But the question still is, was it brand new, or had it just never been seen before. I have shirts that I have bought, but i didn't wear them for a year or so. They just hung in my closet. Then one day, I see it, and think, hey, I think that I will wear that shirt out tonight. One of my friends sees it later and asks "hey, is that a new shirt, cause I haven't seen you wear it before." What do I say? Oh, its new, because I have never worn it, but have had it for a while, or do I say that no, I have had it for while.

This is why I proposed the theory that he got the uniform ordered sometime in 1862 as Davis' militiary advisor, but never got a chance to wear it because he was given command of the AoNV and what kind of general is going to wear such an elaborate uniform in the field (besides McClellan and Hancock the Superb)? I think he had it for awhile, but never wore it, and this was the occasion to bring it out.

I suspect you are pecking at the truth here.

[J_Man0507]

Larry, when I said traitor, I was offering a possible line of thinking on Lee's part. Not saying this is what he was thinking when he thought he might become a prisoner, but I put it out there as a possible line of thought on his part. Its speculation only on that.

[5fish]

I have been dogily been trying to find out more about the uniform Gen. Lee wore the fateful day in 1865. I have learned nonthing more about it; but I have learned other interesting things like Longstreet and some other West Pointers' visited union camp the night of April 9th, to meet old friends from what they called the "old army days". Gen Meade visited Gen. Lee at his tent one night after the surrender for small talk and it looks like Gen Lee and Gen. Grant only met one time after April 9Th.

I did learn one interesting item about Gen. Lee in the following days after the surrender. I found it in Longstreet's book.

The Fuel!

Gen. Lee had a large amount of U.S. currency on him, while still with his AoNV at Appomattox. Why would Gen Lee have any U.S. currency on him??

Gen. Lee plans everything he did so what was he planning to do with the money. Was he planning for the collapse of his Army, for fall confederacy, the end of a rebellion?

Remember, the men in his army went home with out a penny in thier pocket and half starved; but not Gen. Lee.

Now lets look, he has a new uniform and a large amount of his adversary cash in his pocket, maybe my theory has legs.

Where's there is smoke there is fire!!

[5fish]

I have been dogily been trying to find out more about the uniform Gen. Lee wore the fateful day in 1865. I have learned nonthing more about it; but I have learned other interesting things like Longstreet and some other West Pointers' visited union camp the night of April 9th, to meet old friends from what they called the "old army days". Gen Meade visited Gen. Lee at his tent one night after the surrender for small talk and it looks like Gen Lee and Gen. Grant only met one time after April 9Th.

I did learn one interesting item about Gen. Lee in the following days after the surrender. I found it in Longstreet's book.

The Fuel!

Gen. Lee had a large amount of U.S. currency on him, while still with his AoNV at Appomattox. Why would Gen Lee have any U.S. currency on him??

Gen. Lee plans everything he did so what was he planning to do with the money. Was he planning for the collapse of his Army, for fall confederacy, the end of a rebellion?

Remember, the men in his army went home with out a penny in thier pocket and half starved; but not Gen. Lee.

Now lets look, he has a new uniform and a large amount of his adversary cash in his pocket, maybe my theory has legs.

Where's there is smoke there is fire!!

[cw1865]

Originally Posted by 5fish

Where's there is smoke there is fire!!

Are you hypothesizing that Lee sold out the Army of Northern Virginia?

Confederate cavalry raids would invariably seize Union currency. As the war progressed, Confederate money became increasingly worthless. I would imagine that as the war progresses and the hyperinflation sets in, Union currency would likely be a preferred medium of exchange.

[5fish]

No! NO! I am not saying that Gen. Lee sold out the army or took bribes. No!

What I am saying is that either Gen. Lee or his staff were hording U.S. currency; because they knew the end was near.

It goes along with my assumption that if Gen. Lee's was planning to surrender his army at some point in 1865 as the confederacy fell.

The paragraph in Longstreets memiors is a short one. It implies that he and Gen. Lee did not know about the money. It implies that it was a large amount of money. It states the money was divided up among a group of officers.

The point of the paragraph is show how Longstreet kept only one hundred dollars and share the rest with Gen. Fields men. This act implies he care about is common soldier while other officers keep their share for themselves.

The timeline about the money is interesting. The money is brought to Gen. Lee's attention the same day he surrenders his army to Gen. Grant after he returns from Appomattox. Gen. Lee brings the money to Longstreet's attention and from there the money is divided up among a group of officers.

There is no indication of where the money came.

I still believe if one can prove the uniform Gen. Lee wore to the surrender was bought during the siege of Petersburg that day would be the day Gen. Lee gave up hope on the confederacy.

[ole]

Now we have two bits of information "indicating" that Lee was preparing to surrender: money and a new uniform.

What is a "large amount of US currency"? $1000? $5000? $50,000 dollars? A single paymaster's wagon could easily contain a "large amount" of bills. Three-month's pay for a regiment could be a "large amount."

There are many good reasons to have a stash of cash--so many that said cash cannot, without more evidence, be attributed to preparation for surrender. Let's remember that Confederate cash was all but worthless. Could Lee have been buying wagonloads of potatoes, say, from nearby farmers? An occasional pig? Turnips and such?

Likewise, that Lee had a new or virtually unused uniform cannot be assumed to be preparation for surrender. I can't make the connection.

Now. I am interested in when Lee began to see the light. It's just that I can't fix that point on the existence of "foreign" currency or a new uniform.

I'd fix that point somewhere around Chancellorsville--when the Lee/Jackson combo, in the face of some brilliant audacity and maneuver, could not smash the AotP. Horrendous casualties and the main Union opposition marches away.

I consider Gettysburg to be a desparate gamble. Desparate being the operative word. When that gamble didn't pay off, again with horrendous losses, Lee had to know he was in the end game, and that playing it safe was his last option.

Maybe Lee bought the uniform in anticipation of taking Hooker's surrender somewhere in the rocks and hills of south Pennsylvania? Maybe the cash came from Stuart's ride?

ole