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  #11  
Old 08-19-2007, 10:49 PM
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custersluck:

Don't recollect any writing specifically on "unusual" or foreign-born units. Books are filled with cute little asides about the ethnicity or unusual make-up of this battalion, regiment or Brigade, but I've seen no writing addressing them collectively.

But then, there are a lot of books out there I don't know about.

ole
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  #12  
Old 08-21-2007, 04:19 PM
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custersluck,

I met a German soldier who served in the SS Viking Division. Back in 1992 while working security at a hotel in Santa Fe, after retiring from police work.

This elderly gent was into his 70's then but still looked very sturdy. We talked for at least a half an hour and, although his English wasn't that good, I did find out some things. I thought the Viking Division was all foreign but apparently not.

First, he was wearing shorts and a short sleeved shirt. Arms and legs had numerous scars. When we finally got to his war experience, he said he served in the Wiking Division "But I was just a soldier."

He had 8 wound badges, and he promptly pointed to this or that visible scar and rattled off where he received the wound. I remember Sebastopol, but the others were places I'd never heard of. He was also the only survivor of his entire regiment.

I won't go into his opinion of the Russians except that he called them "Untermensch" and some other less than complimentary, shall we say, words in English.

Fascinating character and a fascinating experience talking with him. I just wish he spoke better English and that I'd had more time.

Last edited by Chuck58; 08-21-2007 at 04:21 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-21-2007, 06:22 PM
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One of those priceless experiences, CW.

ole
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  #14  
Old 08-22-2007, 02:25 AM
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Hi Chuck!

Great post! Wow! To meet a Wiking soldaten was great! Yes...I have relatives who share the same unvoiced opinions..I dont know why...we should say them...these guys were animals when they hit the German mainland...ask any female of that age..."Untermensch" is the most common expression I have heard, myself. Fluent German died with me in the family..Im ok...but I grew up on it, and yet, without practice, understand better than "Ich spreche"...too bad...that is why I still love to read about the units who fought in German in the war...can you imagine being captured by Confederates and not being able to speak english? BTW...My uncle served as a interrogator of German POWs in WW2...he was army...

Custersluck13
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  #15  
Old 09-11-2007, 03:44 PM
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The Plan

"...I have given to officers supposed to be competent, in several instances, permits to raise battalions, directing them to prefer Irish and French, and to enlist no citizens of the United States. The latter, especially native born, I hold in great distrust. I preferred to form battalions to regiments, because I doubted the expediency of having so many of this material together as a regiment required.

While authorizing the formation of these few battalions as an experiment, I all the time preferred, and directed the officers of prisons to promote, general enlistments and the distribution of the men enlisted among the regiments of our different armies, selecting, as far as practicable, those which had been originally composed of foreign material. I have, too, authorized several officers, whose commands had been greatly depleted, to recruit for them from this source. Among others, General York, while wounded here, has obtained this permission and proposes to visit the prisons, taking with him one or more Catholic chaplains, whose influence, he thinks, may be profitably exercised upon those of the same religious persuasion. I shall be pleased to give similar authority to recruit to any officers in your army whom you may recommend, and who are willing in that way to replenish their commands...."

Sec. of War Seddon to General Lee, 17 November 1864

~

"The letter of Maj. M. O. Tracy, Thirteenth Louisiana Regiment, relating to the subject of recruiting prisoners of war, has been forwarded to this Department with your indorsement asking instructions in such cases.

The Secretary of War directs me to say that the Department considers it desirable in general that prisoners of war, if received as recruits, should not be placed in new organizations nor collected in large numbers in those now existing, but should be distributed as much as possible among companies, regiments, and brigades of undoubted fidelity.

In one case in which a new battalion was formed from such material a conspiracy was discovered; and although it was promptly crushed, yet it was found expedient to disband the battalion.

Nevertheless, the experiment is now in course of trial by other officers, who believe that by recruiting chiefly among Catholic Irish and other foreigners and obtaining the influence of the Catholic priesthood they may secure faithful soldiers.

As to the material to be received as recruits, it is recommended that Catholic Irish be preferred, and next to them other foreigners. Men born in the United States should not be received unless known to have sincere and positive predilections for the South. Natives of the Southern States may be received more freely.

After giving these general instructions the Honorable Secretary sums up his views in the following words:

That if separate organizations be ventured at all, they be only small battalions; that in recruiting largely for a brigade or any much reduced organization, every possible precaution should be taken in selection, and that some previous trial of these men should be made where they would be surrounded by our men before they are fully relied on in positions of trust and importance."

A.A.G. Hoge to General Maury, 10 January 1865



Results

This is only a partial account of recruits gained from Federal POWs-

Salisbury, NC................1,737
Florence, SC.................1,100
Millen, GA........................634 (285 to work detail)
Andersonville, GA..............254 (-at least; the dramatic scene in movie of same name is not true)
..................................3,725
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New York Times, 27 September 1861

Last edited by Battalion; 09-11-2007 at 04:20 PM.
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  #16  
Old 09-11-2007, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by custersluck13
Yes, very true. I also am aware of the fact both sides employed Native American units to varying degrees and I know of a least one Irish unit in the Western Theatre for the south...it is interesting that the Germans almost unanimously stayed with the union...sometimes to their deaths, as in Texas...seems though, the majority of the foriegn union units fought in the east...probably as most were located in the Ny areas...I believe more of the Germans though may have fought in the west as they seem to have emigrated faster to the west..esp. in Ohio, Il, WI, etc. Does anyone have any access to statistics showing the disposition of the foriegn speaking regiments during the war? That would be a interesting breakdown I think.
Kelly's Irish "Brigade" organized by Joseph Kelly as the Washington Blues in 1857. Joined the Missouri State Guard as a regiment in the 6th division fought at Carthage, Wilson's Creek, Lexington and Pea Ridge. Joined the 5th Missouri CSA Only 23 survived the war.

Brig. Gen. Stand Watie cherokee was the last CSA gen. to surrender at the end of the war.
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  #17  
Old 09-12-2007, 12:22 PM
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Default 254 Galvanized-Rebels from Andersonville

Fight at Egypt Station, Mississippi, 28 December 1864

Federal Forces
General Grierson (3,652)
Losses: 123 killed and wounded.

Confederate Forces
General Gholson (1,450)
Losses: 500 (mostly prisoners).

~

WAR DEPARTMENT, BUREAU OF MILITARY JUSTICE, May 13, 1865.

The SECRETARY OF WAR: Corpl. M. J. Adams, Sixty-third Pennsylvania Volunteers and 253 others, belonging to various regiments, were captured by the First Brigade of General Grierson’s cavalry, at Egypt Station, Miss., Decem- ber 28, 1864. They were at the time serving in the Tenth Tennessee rebel regiment. Lieutenant-Colonel Yorke, Second New Jersey Cavalry, reports that the greater part of these men were on the rebel skirmish line, and when our forces came within range they opened a heavy tire, killing 3 officers and 20 men and wounding 74 others; that he then made a charge, when they threw down their arms and surrendered. Immediately after their capture they alleged that they had been prisoners of war at Andersonville and joined the rebel service to escape death from starvation and disease. They generally claimed to have done so with the intention of making their way to our lines as soon as possible, and state that they had been kept under strict guard and were not furnished arms and ammunition until the night before the engagement, and that they surrendered as soon as an opportunity occurred. Even if this were true, it would not justify their conduct, and it is believed that the Government cannot consistently recognize the propriety of prisoners escaping from the enemy by such means, and cannot place confidence in men who, even for the purpose of escaping the horrors of Southern prisons, were willing to enter the ranks of the rebel army. But the circumstances of the action in which they were captured do not justify the belief that any considerable portion of these men had any desire or intention to rejoin our forces. Being placed upon the skirmish line, they could readily have made an opportunity to pass over without suspicion on the part of the enemy; and, if prevented from so doing by their position in the line, could have fired so as to do no damage to our troops. The deadly precision of their fire shows that they intended to repel our forces, if possible. The opinion of General Hoffman is concurred in, that they are not entitled to any clemency. As to their present status, it may be remarked that they should no longer be regarded as prisoners of war, but should be held and tried as deserters. It appears by the remarks upon the rolls that six of these men came into our lines during the night preceding the engagement and gave valuable information. It is submitted whether or not they may not properly be restored to their regiments, with forfeiture of all pay due at the time of their capture, in consideration of the valuable services rendered.
A. A. HOSMER, Major and Judge-Advocate (in absence of Judge-Advocate-General).
http://0-cdl.library.cornell.edu.source.unco.edu/cgi-bin/moa/pageviewer?frames=1&cite=http%3A%2F%2F0-cdl.library.cornell.edu.source.unco.edu%3A80%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmoa%2Fmoa-cgi%3Fnotisid%3DANU4519-0121&coll=moa&view=50&root=%2Fmoa%2Fwaro%2Fwaro012 1%2F&tif=00566.TIF&pagenum=554
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POWER & MONEY

"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."

New York Times, 27 September 1861
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  #18  
Old 09-12-2007, 07:57 PM
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Default What happened?

Well, what happened to them?
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  #19  
Old 09-12-2007, 08:42 PM
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Most appreciated post, Battalion! Officious red tape at its finest. Many thanks.

ole
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  #20  
Old 09-12-2007, 09:12 PM
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I'm with cw1865, what happened next?

I seem to remember a term "galvanized yankee" for Confederate POWs send to the frontier for garrison duty. They would get out of prison hell hole, but wouldn't serve against the Confederacy. There was a Dee Brown novel, and the Charlton Heston movie "Major Dundee," with "galvanized yankees."
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