Reconstruction?

[DJ Psychomike]

Robert E. Lee said that "if you take the Black Confederate out of the war you take away the meaning of the war".

This was done and continues to be done. That was the re-writing that I think would lead to whites forgetting the slaves that were also subjected to rape, murder, by the invading forces.

Once that was done, politicians could mold the South the way they wanted.

FOOTNOTE: BLACK CONFEDERATES:

Numerous Afro-Virginians, free blacks and slaves, were genuine Southern loyalists, not as a consequence of white pressure but due to their preferences. They are the Civil War's forgotten people, yet their existence was more widespread than American history has recorded. Their bones rest in unhonored glory in Southern soil, shrouded by falsehoods, indifference and historians' censorship.
Ervin L. Jordan, Jr.


There are at the present moment, many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants, and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government and build up that of the traitors and rebels.
Fredrick Douglass


To the majority of the Negroes, as to all the South, the invading armies of the Union seemed to be ruthlessly attacking independent States, invading the beloved homeland and trampling upon all that these men held dear.
Charles H. Wesley


There are numerous accounts of black participation in the battle of First Manassas in the summer of 1861. Black combatants shot, killed, and captured Union troops. Loyal slaves were said to have fought with outstanding bravery alongside their masters. These reports also provide testimony to the fidelity of black Rebels in combat. One black soldier was moving about the field when ordered to surender by a Union officer. The Rebel replied, "No sir, you are my prisoner," while drawing a pistol and shooting the officer dead. He then secured the officer's sidearm and after the battle boasted loudly of having quieted at least one of "the stinkin' Yankees who cam here `specting to whip us Southerners." Another black Confederate who stood behind a tree allowed two Union soldiers to pass before shooting one in the shoulders, clubbing him with a pistol, while demanding the other to surrender. Both prisoners were marched into Confederate lines. An Alabama officer's servant marched a Zouave into camp proclaiming, "Massa, here one of dese devils who been shooting at us, Suh."
Charles W. Harper


I have no doubt that if Congress would authorize their [the black Southerners'] reception into service, and empower the President to call upon individuals of States for such as they are willing to contribute, with the condition of emancipation to all enrolled, a sufficient number would be forthcoming to enable us to try the experiment [of determining whether the slaves would make good soldiers]. If it proved successful, most of the objections to the measure would disappear, and if individuals still remained unwilling to send their negroes to the army, the force of public opinion in the States would soon bring about such legislation as would remove all obstacles. I think the matter should be left, as far as possible, to the people and the States, which alone can legislate as the necessities of this particular service may require.
Gen. Robert E. Lee


One cavalry officer related how he was held under guard by a shotgun-wielding black who kept the weapon trained on the Yankee's head with unwavering concentration. "Here I had come South and was fighting to free this man," the disgusted major wrote in his diary. "If I had made one false move on my horse, he would have shot my head off."
Wayne R. Austman


For more than two years, Negroes had been extensively employed in belligerent operations by the Confederacy. They had been embodied and drilled as rebel soldiers and had paraded with white troops at a time when this would not have been tolerated in the armies of the Union.
Horace Greeley

http://www.credenda.org/issues/9-1verbatim.php?type=print

[larry_cockerham]

Originally Posted by DJ Psychomike

Robert E. Lee said that "if you take the Black Confederate out of the war you take away the meaning of the war".

This was done and continues to be done. That was the re-writing that I think would lead to whites forgetting the slaves that were also subjected to rape, murder, by the invading forces.

Once that was done, politicians could mold the South the way they wanted.

FOOTNOTE: BLACK CONFEDERATES:

Numerous Afro-Virginians, free blacks and slaves, were genuine Southern loyalists, not as a consequence of white pressure but due to their preferences. They are the Civil War's forgotten people, yet their existence was more widespread than American history has recorded. Their bones rest in unhonored glory in Southern soil, shrouded by falsehoods, indifference and historians' censorship.
Ervin L. Jordan, Jr.


There are at the present moment, many colored men in the Confederate Army doing duty not only as cooks, servants, and laborers, but as real soldiers, having muskets on their shoulders and bullets in their pockets, ready to shoot down loyal troops and do all that soldiers may do to destroy the Federal government and build up that of the traitors and rebels.
Fredrick Douglass


To the majority of the Negroes, as to all the South, the invading armies of the Union seemed to be ruthlessly attacking independent States, invading the beloved homeland and trampling upon all that these men held dear.
Charles H. Wesley


There are numerous accounts of black participation in the battle of First Manassas in the summer of 1861. Black combatants shot, killed, and captured Union troops. Loyal slaves were said to have fought with outstanding bravery alongside their masters. These reports also provide testimony to the fidelity of black Rebels in combat. One black soldier was moving about the field when ordered to surender by a Union officer. The Rebel replied, "No sir, you are my prisoner," while drawing a pistol and shooting the officer dead. He then secured the officer's sidearm and after the battle boasted loudly of having quieted at least one of "the stinkin' Yankees who cam here `specting to whip us Southerners." Another black Confederate who stood behind a tree allowed two Union soldiers to pass before shooting one in the shoulders, clubbing him with a pistol, while demanding the other to surrender. Both prisoners were marched into Confederate lines. An Alabama officer's servant marched a Zouave into camp proclaiming, "Massa, here one of dese devils who been shooting at us, Suh."
Charles W. Harper


I have no doubt that if Congress would authorize their [the black Southerners'] reception into service, and empower the President to call upon individuals of States for such as they are willing to contribute, with the condition of emancipation to all enrolled, a sufficient number would be forthcoming to enable us to try the experiment [of determining whether the slaves would make good soldiers]. If it proved successful, most of the objections to the measure would disappear, and if individuals still remained unwilling to send their negroes to the army, the force of public opinion in the States would soon bring about such legislation as would remove all obstacles. I think the matter should be left, as far as possible, to the people and the States, which alone can legislate as the necessities of this particular service may require.
Gen. Robert E. Lee


One cavalry officer related how he was held under guard by a shotgun-wielding black who kept the weapon trained on the Yankee's head with unwavering concentration. "Here I had come South and was fighting to free this man," the disgusted major wrote in his diary. "If I had made one false move on my horse, he would have shot my head off."
Wayne R. Austman


For more than two years, Negroes had been extensively employed in belligerent operations by the Confederacy. They had been embodied and drilled as rebel soldiers and had paraded with white troops at a time when this would not have been tolerated in the armies of the Union.
Horace Greeley

http://www.credenda.org/issues/9-1verbatim.php?type=print

Thank you! At last a few glimmers of truth?

[Dred]

Originally Posted by larry_cockerham

Thank you! At last a few glimmers of truth?

Nah... just the same old stuff we've seen a million times. The description of one or two black soldiers at a time is supposed to explain the 180,000. Wasn't convinced the first time I read it.. still not convinced. I'm not so sure the confederates were convinced, considering how they treated all those blacks in postwar reconstruction. Not exactly a warm welcome for folks who supposedly fought beside you valiantly.

[unionblue]

Originally Posted by larry_cockerham

Thank you! At last a few glimmers of truth?

No, Larry, not even close.

Please click on the link DJ provides, then when at the article, please click at the top of the article where it says it is volume 9, issue such-and-such.

This will take you to the main site of this publication. Then click on the organizations name.

Then read and make up your mind if this is who you want to support your Southern point-of-view.

It is amazing that we go from the topic of RECONSTRUCTION to Black Confederates and how somehow Lee is of the opinion, one unsourced quote, that by leaving out Black Confederates we are now to believe the war was not about slavery, that tens of thousands of black slaves were willing to fight to continue their enslavement, or at the very least, help keep a large part of their fellow blacks enslaved.

I seriously thought we were past this, but this idiotic ghost comes back to haunt this period of history and has just about as much substance.

I'm not surprised, just bored.

Unionblue

[DJ Psychomike]

The removal of the Black Confederate removes a very complex issue. But it also opens the door to scapegoating and anger.

Which I think is the moment the change occured.

Clearly my point of view would be considered horrible to so-called "Neo- Southerners", racists and the like. I have had racists look at me in shock when I told them about Jeff Davis' adopted black child. They are usually silent when I tell them what happened to the kid, after he was kidnapped and put on display.

So if I find a page of quotes I have no problem posting them. Wherever they are. You have to understand, every single day I run into a misstatement about Lincoln. So I agree with very little that is referenced by those who accept "what everyone knows".

Now, the Northern pre- Civil War color codes, sundowner towns and barring from industrial states and how these migrated south after the war is worth exploring. Then the vigilante groups, the KKK is usually used as the blanket name for what in fact were many groups, all different and with different "costumes" and the like.

The historians of the day cheered BIRTH OIF A NATION for its accuracy, today the scenes of the Black government in the South are recognized to be pure fiction and wildly racist. It is worth noting here, that when the movie came out it was considered accurate and beyond reproach.

So in those days, if you didn't think the Blacks in government were barefoot, booze swilling uncouths everyone thought you were no true Civil War buff or historian.

A handfull tried to say this image was wrong. No one listened.

Just saying.......

[ole]

And Indiana, was in the North!

At least geographically.

ole

[unionblue]

Originally Posted by DJ Psychomike

The removal of the Black Confederate removes a very complex issue. But it also opens the door to scapegoating and anger.

DJ, you cannot remove what was not there to begin with.

Which I think is the moment the change occured.

The "change" occured when others began to foist this nonhistorical happening onto a 20th-21st century audience.

Clearly my point of view would be considered horrible to so-called "Neo- Southerners", racists and the like.

No, DJ, in fact they LIVE for nonsense like this, at least the crowd that wants to advocate that slavery had nothing to do with the Civil War.

I have had racists look at me in shock when I told them about Jeff Davis' adopted black child.

And there are other, more sophisticated racists, who rub their hands with glee when you tout this bit of misdirection and take it out of context with the greater historical truth of the fight to preserve the institution of slavery.

They are usually silent when I tell them what happened to the kid, after he was kidnapped and put on display.

So if I find a page of quotes I have no problem posting them. Wherever they are.

Herein your continuing practice to posting what you find and not what you research.

You have to understand, every single day I run into a misstatement about Lincoln. So I agree with very little that is referenced by those who accept "what everyone knows".

But yet this seems to be precisely the attitude and method you employ when "posting" misstatements about Lincoln in particular and the Civil War in general when it conflicts with your predetermined vision of events. It's one thing to have an opinion, it is quite another to have an informed one.

Now, the Northern pre- Civil War color codes, sundowner towns and barring from industrial states and how these migrated south after the war is worth exploring. Then the vigilante groups, the KKK is usually used as the blanket name for what in fact were many groups, all different and with different "costumes" and the like.

The historians of the day cheered BIRTH OIF A NATION for its accuracy, today the scenes of the Black government in the South are recognized to be pure fiction and wildly racist. It is worth noting here, that when the movie came out it was considered accurate and beyond reproach.

So in those days, if you didn't think the Blacks in government were barefoot, booze swilling uncouths everyone thought you were no true Civil War buff or historian.

A handfull tried to say this image was wrong. No one listened.

Just saying.......

So, others wrongs and misbeliefs from a century ago are somehow a confirmation that the current historical assesment of the causes of the Civil War are wrong also? No advance has taken place, no learning, no reassesment?

What you are saying DJ, in effect, the war had nothing to do with preserving an institution of keeping people in bondage. That it was all Lincoln's fault (to include any problems with today's federal government and practices) and yet sail right into Reconstruction and list the crimes of violence against newly freed blacks but can make no connection with the cause of the war and then the hatred and resentments of the results of that war.

You remind me of one of the blind men touching the different parts of an elephant and getting the wrong answer of what it is. This is because you do not know what the others are touching and comparing and sharing all of the data available to you.

You cannot view Reconstruction if you cannot view the true causes of the war. You see the bodies but you do not what caused them to be. You see the violence but you attribute it to the wrong causes.

Again, in my view, this is because you come to the table with cheap take-out and refuse to enjoy the quality and quantity set before you. You're used to your chosen fare and refuse to try any other.

Unionblue

[unionblue]

Reconstruction,

Yesterday and today's views.

http://blogcritics.org/archives/2003/09/01/191204.php

Unionblue

[diddyriddick]

Mike,

Ok. I'll bite. Do you have any substantive, documented evidence of black confederates? The quotes were interesting, but really nothing more than sound bites. Any regimental histories? I wanna have an open mind here, but this is pretty thin.

[diddyriddick]

That is...Before 1865 in and around Richmond.