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Not sure what you mean. Care to expand just enough to take in my pea-brain?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Rosecrans = McClellan light
Thomas is much more aggresive.
I like Rosecrans, and have for a long time, ever since I read Tucker's book on Chickamauga about 40 years back.
Rosecrans was an aggressive commander -- so much so that I think he benefitted from having Thomas with him to control his impulses. They made a very good team.
Rosecrans was loved by his soldiers, had a contentious relationship with many of his division and corps commanders, seemed to feud with everyone above him (Stanton, Halleck, Grant, McClellan, etc.) Partially this was due to the way in which he would criticize underlings for mistakes (he had a tongue with a rasp like a coarse file). He also seemed to have a talent for picking feuds over small issues with superiors. Even worse, he doesn't seem to have realized the animosity he built up with the feuds and dressing-downs, acting as if they'd be forgotten right after they occurred. In the end, this clobbered him at Chickamauga and afterwards.
On campaign, he was the opposite of McClellan. Where McClellan was cautious the more he was in the field, Rosecrans was bold. Rosey's problem was that he didn't sleep, wore himself out with restless energy, became more and more impulsive. But if you compare Rosey's battlefield actions to Mac's, there is a big, big difference. Rosey would not have had a single problem launching another attack at Antietam; Mac would not have been holding on after the first day at Stones River or Chickamauga, IMHO. Mac could never move with the speed Rosey consistently showed in his campaigns.
But both men were their own worst enemy. The grief they stored up came back to get them in the end.
Regards,
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Ole, I guess that what brought this question to mind is Rosecrans prep for the June '63 effort to remove Bragg from Middle Tennessee, and the efforts of Thomas at Nashville in '64.
__________________
Located near Indianapolis, home of Col. Eli Lilly and the Eli Lilly Civil War Museum
They were both meticulous planners, reluctant to act until everything and every man was available and ready for action.
Just before his Chattanooga Campaign, Rosecrans, refused to advance, because he was convinced that he should not advance until After Grant had taken Vicksburg and nothing Lincoln, Halleck or Stanton said or ordered could convince him otherwise I have heard it argued that it was just one of his many excuses not to move until he was ready. But was this true? From all I can learn this conviction seemed sincere.
They were both meticulous planners, reluctant to act until everything and every man was available and ready for action.
Just before his Chattanooga Campaign, Rosecrans, refused to advance, because he was convinced that he should not advance until After Grant had taken Vicksburg and nothing Lincoln, Halleck or Stanton said or ordered could convince him otherwise I have heard it argued that it was just one of his many excuses not to move until he was ready. But was this true? From all I can learn this conviction seemed sincere.
I think Rosecrans was sincere. Like McClellan, he saw the war through the lens of his own position, and found great difficulty in placing the national interests above the interests of his own command.
Strategic considerations had Washington doing everything they could to make sure Grant took Vicksburg. They wanted Rosecrans to pressure Bragg to keep him from detaching against Grant. Rosecrans refused.
Rosecrans waited until Bragg had dispatched 10,000 reinforcements to Joe Johnston, trying to build a relief force for Vicksburg. Tactically, this was very good for Rosecrans and his effort. As things worked out, those 10,000 were in transit during the Tullahoma Campaign, and did not arrive in Mississippi in time to take part in an effort to relieve Vicksburg.
In hindsight, it doesn't matter. But in real life, hindsight is what doesn't matter.
If Pemberton held on longer (a definite possibility to consider in June 1863) and Stevenson's 10,000 reinforced Johnston (they were en route) and Joe Johnston does attack successfully, disaster threatens Grant. That's what Lincoln, Stanton, Halleck, and Grant wanted to prevent. That's what Rosecrans refused to do anything about. Rosecrans was in the wrong, no matter what his local situation was, because he was unwilling to subordinate himself to higher command.
Regards,
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Rosecran's ruse. He lights fires to lead the Confederates to believe that the Federal right extends beyond the Confederate left. Nifty ploy, Bragg takes the bait loads up his left and crushes Rosecran's right. Talk about 'be careful for what you wish for!'
My theory is that if you lose a battle to Bragg you have to be pretty bad!
But all kidding aside, I do liken Rosecrans to McClellan because Rosecrans was going to move when Rosecrans felt absolutely, positively, 100% ready to move.
But all kidding aside, I do liken Rosecrans to McClellan because Rosecrans was going to move when Rosecrans felt absolutely, positively, 100% ready to move.
That part I agree with. Other people's needs and requests were not going to hurry him.
Regards,
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Another similarity between the two, was that once they finally completed their preparations, they moved with speed and power.
I believe Thomas would probably had stopped his advance after taking Chattanooga. To build up and resupply his Army. If he had continued his advance, it would, probably, have been a little slower, with units in closer contact with each other.
Before WWI the French Army developed the idea of the all-out offensive as the best way for France to win a war with Germany. General Foch, was an ardent believer and exponent of this doctrine, but he also included the proviso of 'security' it was said his lectures included the metaphysics of the offensive to the point it becoming almost incomprehensible and then suddently switching to the hard practicalities of 'security'
I think Thomas accepted the offensive as the way to win battles but always paid strict attention to planning for unforseen eventuality without getting bogged down by overplanning or worrying too much about those things that were beyond ones control.
The offensive 'with' security, a difficult balance to maintain and not for the faint of heart. I think Thomas did it best, except for Grant.
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Rosecrans and Thomas 
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