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Then by your reckoning, little Bobby Sue on Bourbon St. running her lemonade stand was a confederate comissary, since she was also under martial law. Wonder if she put in for a pension as well.
Did she have a rifle?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
They served as soldiers under Confederate command.
You've been asked repeatedly to show evidence of such and have failed to do so. When were they paid, armed etc... they weren't and you are well aware of this.
What battles did they participate in, under whose command, what were their casualties what units did they engage in battle and where. Once again, please provide details... I rather suspect you cannot.
I believe you once admitted, after much prodding, that you believed 2-5000 black men served under arms in the CS. If you include your 1000 odd from the 1st LA Native Guards (who never fired a shot in anger...or were armed for that matter) that drops the number to approx 4000 at best (by your own estimate) and for what it's worth that is a reasonable number. 4000 w/in an army of 900,000 I believe that would be about .04%. Not what I would call a dramatic number.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I doubt if little Bobby Sue was running a lemonade stand. It should be a mint julep stand.
Come now gary. Moonshine.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
You've been asked repeatedly to show evidence of such and have failed to do so. When were they paid, armed etc... they weren't and you are well aware of this.
What battles did they participate in, under whose command, what were their casualties what units did they engage in battle and where. Once again, please provide details... I rather suspect you cannot.
I believe you once admitted, after much prodding, that you believed 2-5000 black men served under arms in the CS. If you include your 1000 odd from the 1st LA Native Guards (who never fired a shot in anger...or were armed for that matter) that drops the number to approx 4000 at best (by your own estimate) and for what it's worth that is a reasonable number. 4000 w/in an army of 900,000 I believe that would be about .04%. Not what I would call a dramatic number.
Martial Law.
They served as soldiers under Confederate command.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
The one that has "orders" and "by command" on it and mentions him by name and appoints him provost marshal of the 4th District.
Sigh. Yes, the one that says "General Order No. 10". It is exactly what it says, a General Order addressed to no particular person. This is what I pointed out to you, so what are you disagreeing with?
It does not actually appoint him to be Provost Marshal, or any of the others. That would have been done with a specific order to him. It merely tells others that he has been appointed.
=====
GENERAL ORDERS No. 10.
HEADQUARTERS DEPARTMENT NO. 1,
New Orleans, La., March 15, 1862.
By authority of the President of the Confederate States, and in his name, martial law is hereby declared in the parishes of Orleans, Jefferson, Saint Bernard, and Plaquemine.
All grown white males in the aforesaid parishes, except unnaturalized foreigners, will be required to take the oath of allegiance to the Confederate States, and all persons, whether foreigners or not, who are unfriendly to our cause, are notified to leave the district embraced by this order without delay.
A system of registry and passport will be established, and no one wilt be permitted to sojourn in the above-mentioned parishes without satisfying the provost-marshals of their loyalty; and all good citizens are <ar6_858> requested to report to those officers all who are suspected of hostility to the Government.
All places for the sale of liquor will be closed by 8 o'clock p.m. Any found open after that hour will be closed permanently and the liquor seized. A number of persons who have no ostensible business, nor any interests in the city or State, have recently arrived in New Orleans. They must satisfy the provost-marshals of their good intentions and objects here or leave immediately.
The following-named persons are appointed provost-marshals for Orleans Parish:
William Freret, first district; Cyprian Dufour, second district; Hon. Pierre Soulé, third district; Col. H. D. Ogden, fourth district. For Algiers, Capt. Norbert Trepagnier; for Jefferson Parish, Judge Victor Burthe ;--who will enter upon the discharge of the duties of their offices immediately.
The provost-marshals for the parishes of Plaquemine and Saint Bernard will be announced in a few days.
By command of Major-General Lovell:
J. G. PICKETT,
Assistant Adjutant-General.
=====
Quote:
Originally Posted by battalion
You missed this part-
"By command of Major-General Lovell:
J. G. PICKETT,
Assistant Adjutant General."
No, I told you that is who signed it, so I have not a clue what your issue is here. Adjutant Generals do things that their Commanding Officer tells them to do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by battalion
Nope.
It gives recognition to his rank as officer in the Native Guard.
No mention is made of the Native Guard in the order.
Quote:
Originally Posted by battalion
"Col. H.D. Ogden".....not "H.D. Ogden."
You aren't reading very carefully.
Or it is merely a reference to the fact that he once held that rank. It does not mention his regiment at all. It has been fairly common practice through the years to use the rank with a person's name even when they are not serving actively. For example, the Ralph Semple Henry who wrote the book on Forrest in the 1940s is sometimes referred to as Colonel Henry -- because he was an artillery officer in WWI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
The Native Guard does not exist at the time -- as the Governor's office makes plain on March 24, and as you already know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by battalion
Why does that matter?
Because you are claiming H. D. Ogden is in command of the Native Guard regiment on March 13, 1862 when that regiment did not exist, and had been disbanded for 4 weeks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by battalion
Ever wonder why they were re-instated?
I have already told you the answer to this several times: that Louisiana had been stripped of troops for the upcoming battle of Shiloh and Farragut had arrived off the mouth of the Mississippi, putting the state in desperate need. Are you trying to maintain something different? If so, explain yourself clearly and explicitly.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
They served as soldiers under Confederate command.
Yet you have yet to prove it by any stretch of the imagination. As far as I can tell they were never armed. When were they paid? When were they mustered? Who did they fight along w/ when & where? What were their casualties and what casualties did they inflict? Where are the action reports? I eagerly wait your answer to these questons.
You seem fixed upon 1000 men of the 1st LA Native Guard who never saw combat for the CS... and you have to stretch to get them included in the ranks of soldiers. Hardly what I would call evidence that masses of black men flocked to the banner of the CS. In fact it seems more like evidence that you have no evidence.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
4. Jackson Thomas, Private, 5th Tennessee Cavalry (McKenzie's)
from 37th Texas website-
A letter from John Hammonds (Camp Brown, Knoxville, Tennessee) to "Dear Uncle", February 10, 1862. It appears in Forgotten Confederates and is referenced to the "Special Collections Library, The University of Tennessee, Knoxville":
"I seat myself to write you a few lines to inform you that I am well hoping that those few lines may find you all well. I have nothing of importance to write to you at this time. My company [1st East TN Cav., later designated 5th (McKenzie's) Cav.] is know [sic] station on Cumberland Mountains. All but a few of us that was detailed to stay here to mind the tents take care of some sick boys that we had sick here with the measels. We will all leave here in the morning. We had a small chunk of a fight with the Lincolnit[es] the 2 day of this instant. We killed six of them & taken one prisoner & wounded ten more. Jack Thomas a colored person that belongs to our company killed one of them..."
The information given on Jack[son] Thomas is referenced to the Compiled Service Records, 5th TN Cavalry, Record Group 109, National Archives. It shows that he enlisted at age 30 on November 13, 1861, at Cleveland, TN. He was captured at Big Creek on March 14, 1862, and died on May 14, 1863. The Military Annals of Tennessee, Volume II, states that Jackson Thomas was killed at Big Creek on March 14, 1862.
All records I have access to show Jackson Thomas as Private, 5th Tennessee Cavalry.
...26 to go...
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
5
Charles Dempsey, Private, Company F, 36th NC Regiment (2nd NC Artillery), Negro. Captured at Fort Fisher January 15, 1865 and confined at Point Lookout, MD, until paroled and exchanged at Coxes Landing, James River, VA, February 14-15, 1865.
6
Henry Dempsey, Private, Company F, 36th NC Regiment (2nd NC Artillery), Negro. Captured at Fort Fisher January 15, 1865 and confined at Point Lookout, MD, until paroled and exchanged at Coxes Landing, James River, VA, February 14-15, 1865.
7
J. Doyle, Private, Company E, 40th NC Regiment (3rd NC Artillery), Negro. Captured at Fort Fisher January 15, 1865 and confined at Point Lookout, MD, until paroled and exchanged at Boulware's Wharf, James River, VA, March 16, 1865.
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
8 Black Berry, "Negro"/"Servt."/"Pvt." (various POW rolls; enlistment record shows "private") 15th Tenn.
Captured Buffington Isl., Ohio (Morgan's Raiders), 19 July 1863. Died Camp Douglas, 5 Nov 1863 (inflamation of lungs). Buried at Confederate Mound, Oak Woods Cemetery, Chicago, IL.
9 Elisha Harmon ("Colored"), Private, Co. B, 26th S.C. Prisoner of war. Died Douglas Hospital, Washington, D.C., 6 March 1865 (acute bronchitis).
Selected Records of the War Department Relating to Confederate Prisoners of War, 1861-1865; (National Archives Microfilm Publication M598, 145 rolls); War Department Collection of Confederate Records, Record Group 109; National Archives, Washington, D.C.
Register of Confederate Soldiers, Sailors, and Citizens who Died in Federal Prisons and Military Hospitals in the North, 1861-1865; (National Archives Microfilm Publication M918, 1 roll); Records of the Office of the Quartermaster General, Record Group 92; National Archives, Washington, D.C.
...21 to go
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
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