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Why did you leave out the words ", commanding State militia" in the sentence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
Doesn't matter.
This is what you wrote-
Then, on March 24, 1862, the Governor's office writes a letter asking them to maintain their organization (already officially disbanded for five-and-a-half weeks) and havetheir colonel report to the the state Militia commander.
...You left out the part about the organization reporting-
Battalion, you have no shame. Twice in the last few messages I have posted the entire message to you. This includes the very message you are now responding to, #133 in this thread -- so clearly you are not being truthful. I suggest you stop this constant deliberate attempt to distort and deceive with your posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by battalion
There are no distortions...
...and you are running out of arguments.
See above. Once again, why do you bother to destroy your own credibility with these obvious distortions?
While we are at it, are you ever going to post any evidence to support what you say?
Quote:
Originally Posted by battalion
Martial Law is the trump card. I hold it in my hand.
What is it that you think "Martial Law" means?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Technically. martial law means just that... all Laws and enforcement handed over to the army. Even law enforcement has to give way to the military. This means even militia was under the direct control of the commander of the reb forces in the area. However, it also means that the fire department was, and the post man. This does not make them part of the army.
__________________ "In mortal combat, a man may and will become so infuriated by the din and dangers of a bloody fight that his heart will turn to stone and his every de sire [be] for blood."
John Hadley, 7th Indiana after the battle at Port Republic
"Martial Law" simply places the power over everything in the area under the designated commander.
Correct.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
Actually, I have never seen any indication that General Lovell even knew they were there and they are not mentioned in any list of forces in the Confederate records I have seen. When I posted a list of forces in the city to you, taken from the testimony at the Confederate investigation of Lovell's actions, and asked you where in the list they were, you never answered, so we have to assume you don't know -- and since you once asked me where they were deployed in the city, we have to assume you don't even know that.
I don't recall your list.
Testimony taken from officers (from memory) would not necessarily supply a complete accounting of the forces in the city.
As I recall...many of the forces were simply referred to as "militia" or "state troops" etc.
No official list of forces was presented for the record.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
What order to Lt. Col. Ogden?
The one that has "orders" and "by command" on it and mentions him by name and appoints him provost marshal of the 4th District.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
Your link is to a General Order sent out by Lovell's Assistant Adjutant General, J. G. Pickett.
You missed this part-
"By command of Major-General Lovell:
J. G. PICKETT,
Assistant Adjutant General."
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
It is not addressed to anyone in particular, or anyone at all, for that matter...The mention of Ogden names him as one of six provost-marshals; note that four of the six are civilians (one is a judge), so he is probably being named as a locally respected citizen in the Fourth District.
Nope.
It gives recognition to his rank as officer in the Native Guard.
"Col. H.D. Ogden".....not "H.D. Ogden."
You aren't reading very carefully.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
The Native Guard does not exist at the time -- as the Governor's office makes plain on March 24, and as you already know.
Tim
Why does that matter?
Ever wonder why they were re-instated?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Battalion, you have no shame. Twice in the last few messages I have posted the entire message to you. This includes the very message you are now responding to, #133 in this thread -- so clearly you are not being truthful. I suggest you stop this constant deliberate attempt to distort and deceive with your posts.
See above. Once again, why do you bother to destroy your own credibility with these obvious distortions?
Are you wanting to learn something or just playing some sham-type debate game?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
In the latest issue of North and South this issue is discussed. Robert Krick's unpublished essay is mentioned, in which he studied 100,000 service records and found 20-30 non-white soldiers. If the CS armies totalled (very roughly) one million, this means up to 300 non whites.
Well, which is it? 20 or 30?
I can list more than 30...and I haven't looked through 100,000 records.
What formula does he use as to who counts and who doesn't count?
Is he aware that race is not always listed in Confederate records?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Battalion, put up or shut up about the 1st LA NAtive Guard; so far you have yet to prove anything; all you've done is dodge questions asked you and prove to all who are watching that you have nothing in your corner but cute little icons and creative the use of "...".
When were they mustered in, when were they paid, when were they equipped & armed and w/ what kind of arms? You can't answer these simple questions. W/out those very important answers how can you call them anything more than a private organization.
As to whether a man was adressed as Col if in charge of anything or not... you know that answer as well. After the War R.E. Lee was refered to as General Lee. What was Col Sanders in command of all his life? KFC does not equal a military command. Just as 1000 odd men who neither the CS govt or State govt were willing to muster, arm, clothe, feed or pay equal CS soldiers of any kind. Do you know if any of the 1st LA Native Guard applied for state pensions after the war? As you are such an expert on the unit please post the particulars.
We are all willing to learn something; we're just waiting for you to give us something substantial.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I can list more than 30...and I haven't looked through 100,000 records. Then do it.
What formula does he use as to who counts and who doesn't count?
Is he aware that race is not always listed in Confederate records?
I would expect "colored" as mentioned in most. THe CS wasn't an integrated force as so many of your persuassion like to erroneously state. There is just too much evidence against your masses of armed CS black men. You've posted how many so far?
Still unwilling to answer why Cleburne had so many problems after his letter... why did he even need to write such a letter if there were so many, why not just call up a batch for his use... unless there weren't any.
Robert Krick... Battalion I wonder which has proven to be more credible?
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Battalion, put up or shut up about the 1st LA NAtive Guard; so far you have yet to prove anything; all you've done is dodge questions asked you and prove to all who are watching that you have nothing in your corner but cute little icons and creative the use of "...".
When were they mustered in, when were they paid, when were they equipped & armed and w/ what kind of arms? You can't answer these simple questions. W/out those very important answers how can you call them anything more than a private organization.
As to whether a man was adressed as Col if in charge of anything or not... you know that answer as well. After the War R.E. Lee was refered to as General Lee. What was Col Sanders in command of all his life? KFC does not equal a military command. Just as 1000 odd men who neither the CS govt or State govt were willing to muster, arm, clothe, feed or pay equal CS soldiers of any kind. Do you know if any of the 1st LA Native Guard applied for state pensions after the war? As you are such an expert on the unit please post the particulars.
We are all willing to learn something; we're just waiting for you to give us something substantial.
Martial Law.
They served as soldiers under Confederate command.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Then by your reckoning, little Bobby Sue on Bourbon St. running her lemonade stand was a confederate comissary, since she was also under martial law. Wonder if she put in for a pension as well.
__________________ "In mortal combat, a man may and will become so infuriated by the din and dangers of a bloody fight that his heart will turn to stone and his every de sire [be] for blood."
John Hadley, 7th Indiana after the battle at Port Republic
I would expect "colored" as mentioned in most. THe CS wasn't an integrated force as so many of your persuassion like to erroneously state. There is just too much evidence against your masses of armed CS black men. You've posted how many so far?
Still unwilling to answer why Cleburne had so many problems after his letter... why did he even need to write such a letter if there were so many, why not just call up a batch for his use... unless there weren't any.
Robert Krick... Battalion I wonder which has proven to be more credible?
I can list more than 30...and I haven't looked through 100,000 records.
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
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