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  #31  
Old 06-06-2007, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ole
I'll apologize in advance for taking this discussion slightly off-track (pun intended): The lack of infrastructure -- railroads in particular -- speaks loudly to the point that capital in the south was not invested in things that did not directly benefit the planter.

Now, back to the regularly scheduled program.

Ole
Right On, Ole,

and other things like ordinary roads and schools.

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  #32  
Old 06-07-2007, 09:05 AM
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Default Confederate Railroads

One of the great non-battle books on the Civil War.

First published in 1952, it is available in paperback. Anyone interested in the Civil War and logistics should read this book. Of course, there are some whose only interest is in the "battle books", but then one can find many issues, in which to disagree.


The Railroads of the Confederacy
by Robert C. Black III
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  #33  
Old 06-07-2007, 10:34 AM
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Default Southern Railroads

Charles W. Ramsdell, Behind the Lines in the Southern Confederacy, Baton Rouge, 1944.

It's chapter "The Confederate Government and the Railroads" is a source mentioned in Texas A&M Military Series - Their Tattered Flags - by Frank Vandiver.

This book is cited also in the Westpoint Military series under general information.

Ramsdell is cited as a significant author in Interpretations of American History although he belonged to a Southern nationalist historical group of the 30's and 40's so his POV might have to be taken with a grain of salt.

Makes me really interested!
Texas2nd
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  #34  
Old 06-07-2007, 10:54 AM
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Default Lack of Infrastructure

So how is the lack of infrastructure the fault of the planters?

Because the South wasn't industrialized?

I say blame the North's industrialization for thier superior infrastructure and the South's lack of industrialism on thier faulty infrastructure.



Texas2nd

Last edited by Texas2nd : 06-07-2007 at 10:58 AM.
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  #35  
Old 06-07-2007, 11:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas2nd
So how is the lack of infrastructure the fault of the planters?

Because the South wasn't industrialized?

I say blame the North's industrialization for thier superior infrastructure and the South's lack of industrialism on thier faulty infrastructure.

The planter is a farmer.

Texas2nd
Well, because a lot of this is caused by choices made by the people living at that time.

Generally, southern legislaturors, southern congressional delegations, and southern political leaders came from a background that was based on an agricultural society, and particularly the wealthy farmer or planter. They saw it as an ideal way to live, and they looked down upon the greasy mechanics and shopkeepers of the North, as they saw them. As they passed legislation and pushed for laws in Congress, they made choices.

Naturally enough, that is what they promoted and pushed for. It carries forward into all walks of life. Industrialization is one of them.

Geography is part of this. In general, Northern rivers were deeper and faster-moving while Southern ones were shallower and slower moving (particularly in VA-NC-SC-GA-FL-AL-MS. This made industrial development from water power much easier in the North. But you notice that textile mills moved from the North to the South in the XXth Century, so the South of a later day figured out how to move that industry and those jobs down South. They could have built and run their own mills if they had been inclined to; they didn't want to.

Iron and steel require access to raw materials -- but the first iron mining area in the country was established in Virginia in 1720. With investment and hard work, a mining and manufacturing industry could have been established in the days before the Civil War. It wasn't, and a large part of the reason was the way in which Southerners, particularly wealthy Southerners and entrepeneurs, chose to live, work, and invest.

They didn't want the disruptive effect of lots of foreign immigrants, so they did little to encourage them and much to discourage them. They swarmed into the North and helped establish the strength that crushed the Confederacy. Once again, this is largely a result of choice on the part of Southerners.

Overall, total per capita spending for eductaion was close together between North and South before the Civil War. However, northern governments spent far more on public education, and Southern ones far less. (Southern per capita spending gets pushed up by the large number of planters sons and daughters going to finishing schools and small colleges that were not amed at making people succeed in the business world). As a result, Northerners were generally better educated. This was a well-known situation at West Point, where cadets from Northern states generally arrived for their Plebe year much better prepared for coursework (while Southerners were generally much better horsemen). Once again, this is a result of choice by Southern governments, for the most part.

The South had the right to make those choices. Having made them, though, they cannot avoid responsibility for them.

Regards,
Tim
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  #36  
Old 06-07-2007, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
I say blame the North's industrialization for thier superior infrastructure and the South's lack of industrialism on thier faulty infrastructure.
Tim has already more than adequately answered your post, Texas, but I do want to add a thought.

Industrialism and infrastructure development are co-dependent -- there is not one without the other.The availability of labor is also vital to the mix. You don't get one without the other two. Railroad magnates, moving west, did not do so without promoting settlement and industries ahead of the RRs. So you have towns platted and established, followed closely by railroads.

My home town had built a nice little community around a mill of a fast river. The RR came through, aiming for a larger town nearby. The community packed up and moved, buildings and all, to park itself by the RR. That shaved several miles off the trip my grandfather had to make to the nearest grain collection point.

But, I digress. Southern rails were built primarily to get cotton to the nearest river landing or port. Northern rails were built primarily to move all kinds of things all over the country, concentrating on industrial population and produce centers.

Ole
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  #37  
Old 06-07-2007, 03:41 PM
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Unfortunately as with most things done with passion and little thought or not enough thought, the lack of a supply chain was not top on the Confederate Governments list in the beginning. However just like teenagers having babies reality sets in. they didn't think it would last as long as it did, and they just couldn't support it and there were no grand parents to help.

Pinckney
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  #38  
Old 06-07-2007, 04:37 PM
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PINCKNEYUSMCRET,

Your above post is an excellent summation of the entire thread.

Well done!

Sincerely,
Unionblue, grandfather of three.
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  #39  
Old 06-07-2007, 07:21 PM
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I'll second that. Pinckney said in four lines what we haven't reached in four pages.

Ole
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  #40  
Old 06-07-2007, 11:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PINCKNEYUSMCRET
Unfortunately as with most things done with passion and little thought or not enough thought, the lack of a supply chain was not top on the Confederate Governments list in the beginning. However just like teenagers having babies reality sets in. they didn't think it would last as long as it did, and they just couldn't support it and there were no grand parents to help.

Pinckney
This sounds eerily familiar to a current conflict.
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Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf

Ancestors in CSA Army: 2nd TN Inf (Walker's), 9th TN Cav (Bennett's/Ward's); 2nd TX Inf
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