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If I lived in the 1800's I would have been a big believer in MANIFEST DESTINY!
I am one of those wing nuts that believe we should have forced England to give up Canada to us or even use force. After the civil war no one could have stopped us from taking Canada or bigger chucks of Mexico. Oh, what the heck, we should have conquered all of North America that should have been our destiny.
In 1800's it was okay to take other peoples lands and call it your own. It not political correct thing to do today.
Really the question of viability is more or less directed at whether the Confederacy COULD have survived as a single nation; not whether it WOULD have survived. Your threshold for viability is pretty low. All of the mechanisms for state government are inherited; at the Federal (or Confederated level); there is ample experience operating a republican form of government and there is sufficient infrastructure and economy to house, clothe, transport and feed people.
Most of those 13 Confederate states had a bit to do with the creation of the United States, particularly the ones east of the Appalachian mountains. The knowledge was there and certainly the desire was there, as evidenced by the blood, guts and effort put into the civil war. TThe result that occurred in 1865 was far more desireable from the standpoint of growing a viable, defendable nation with fledging industry and trading skills than splitting a great nation into halves. The fact that yankees were involved is j something us southern folks will just have to continue to live with!
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Most of those 13 Confederate states had a bit to do with the creation of the United States, particularly the ones east of the Appalachian mountains. The knowledge was there and certainly the desire was there, as evidenced by the blood, guts and effort put into the civil war.
Are you talking about the 13 in The Articles of Confederation? Or about the Confederacy that assumed Kentucky and Missouri were also CSA?
In either case, the states had learned to govern themselves adequately and their Federal representatives had learned very well how to play the political games at a national level. That should have meant that 11 of them ought to have been able to create and govern a nation of their own.
But somewhere between 1789 and 1860, something disappeared; for lack of a better term, I'll call it nationalism. States' Rights is a favored ideology, but when it separates itself from the common national good, then it becomes troublesome. The "me first" attitude doesn't play well when there is a nation abuilding.
But States' Rights didn't do-in the Confederacy by itself. It goes back to the dumb idea that 7 states without industry (money), ports (money), or internal communications (money) could actually make war against a country that had all that, plus a huge population advantage, and more.
There was a chance. A slim chance. And they blew it.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
After the civil war no one could have stopped us from taking Canada or bigger chucks of Mexico. Oh, what the heck, we should have conquered all of North America that should have been our destiny.
Wing Nut: It would seem natural that Canada and Central America should be part of the 67 United States. But, somewhere, back there, maybe with the Founding Fathers, developed a national character that just didn't thirst for land belonging to other countries. (We didn't mind too much taking lands from indigenous peoples, but they weren't nations.)
Maybe we were too busy making money off our own resources that we didn't need the resources of Canada and Central America? Easier to buy what we need than going for another war.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
If I lived in the 1800's I would have been a big believer in MANIFEST DESTINY!
I am one of those wing nuts that believe we should have forced England to give up Canada to us or even use force. After the civil war no one could have stopped us from taking Canada or bigger chucks of Mexico. Oh, what the heck, we should have conquered all of North America that should have been our destiny.
In 1800's it was okay to take other peoples lands and call it your own. It not political correct thing to do today.
I can't tell if your tongue in cheek or what. But after having fought a bloody dividing war on our own soil. Coupled with the British holding Canada and the French designs on Mexico do really believe that another war, this time with a European power would have been a good idea.
Not to mention the fact that after the Mexican War the population of Mexico wasn't all to Gringo friendly.
Sounds like a recipe for alot of needless bloodshed to me.
I can't tell if your tongue in cheek or what. But after having fought a bloody dividing war on our own soil. Coupled with the British holding Canada and the French designs on Mexico do really believe that another war, this time with a European power would have been a good idea.
Not to mention the fact that after the Mexican War the population of Mexico wasn't all to Gringo friendly.
Sounds like a recipe for alot of needless bloodshed to me.
Ruffie,
I am tongue in cheek about taking over all of North America; but I do believe we should have forced England into giving up Canada in one way or another.
I admit it would have been tough getting then American people to back using force to secure land from Canada or Mexico after the civil war.
European powers would have been hard pressed and challenged to stop us from extorting our will in the America's.
Why on earth would we begin to want Canada? It's populated by Canadians!
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The United States made four attempts to seize Canada, or portions of Canada. 1)The invasion of 1775-6, which ended with the destruction of Benedict Arnold's invading force, 2)the various attempts in the War of 1812, one of which ended with the capture of a young(and persumably slimmer)Winfield Scott, as well as the burning of Washington DC in retaliation to the burning of York, Ontario.
3) A filibustering expedition in the 1830s, which ended with Canadian forces seizing the expedition's steamboat, setting it afire and sending the burning wreck over Niagara Falls, 4) the Fenian invasion of 1866.
So to be fair to 19th century Americans, they tried to conquer Canada several times, just not successfully.
I really wouldn't count the Feneins except for the fact that they invaded from the US. It was an Irish Nationalist thing not a US planned and suported invasion.
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Why on earth would we begin to want Canada? It's populated by Canadians!
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