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My friend, you appear to be another who has spent little or perhaps no time studying the events at Ft. Pillow.
C'mon, Larry. You have to admit that Reb targets at Ft. Pillow did manage to change from the initial blue color to another somewhere in the confusion.
Although that may be attributed to the heat of battle, you and I both know that there was a degree of excess.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
What is intresting about Forrest is that nothing like Ft. Pillow happened before or after with his command. Just to say that Forrest ordered the action of his men or that he was letting it go on longer than it should is hard to believe. When other units of the USCT were involved in actions that Forrest took advantage of, the USCT were handled as property and sent to work camps. The capture of Athens and the block houses on the Nashville and Decatur Railroad is a great example of this.
Also take a look at the Union left at Nashville. The USCT took extremely heavy losses compaired to the Union White troops.
In east Tennessee and Eastern Kentucky, many of the "war Crimes" were inflicted on the population by southern soldiers.
__________________ Located near Indianapolis, home of Col. Eli Lilly and the Eli Lilly Civil War Museum
Dude, Osceola. Mo. can not even be compared to Lawrence, Ks.. You are misrepresenting history. How dare you!
Howdy Rookie. Welcome Aboard.
How dare I! How dare you?
Lane and Jennison and Gen. James G. Blunt were nothing more than privateers hired by Lincoln and his cronies to rape, kill, pillage and burn along the western frontier. I reckon they didn't care too much what your sympathies were in the summer of 1861. Republican or Democrat, Slave-Holding or Abolitionist, Union, Seccessionist or Neutral were all simply prey in their eyes. Mercenaries hell bent on forcing this war upon US.
Lawrence, Kansas was reprisal for Osceola, Missouri and a hundred other War Crimes Against Southern Civilians my friend and let's not forget it.
The events in Kansas are almost a 'war' inside of a 'war' which of course flows into the Civil War - Frankly, aside from trying to assess blame 140+ years, and I assure you there is plenty to go around on both sides. I tend to think that the violence in the region can be directly attributed to the policy of 'popular sovereignity' which would invariably lead to friction between the free/slave factions flooding into the area.
Its clear that both Osceola and Lawrence are well within the 'cycle' of violence of 'tit for tats' that had started long prior.
What are you talkin' about ole? Ain't you ever heard of Osceola, Missouri? US Senator Jim Lane and his wild-eyed JayHawkers burned the enitre town to the ground in the summer of 1861. They carted off more'n $1,000,000 dollars worth of loot and took it straight back too Lawrence, Kansas.
What modern day reconstructionists refuse to admit is that Union forces instigated these autrocities against civilians. Oh you all are quick to point out the few instances of Southern boys raisin' a little hell, but you continually ignore, whitewash, cover up and expunge from the Offical Record any/all evidence of Northern boys doin' the same.
Lawrence, Kansas was in retribution for numerous and more outrageous autrocities committed by Northern / Union men and we hadn't ought to EVER forget it.
Lanes Kansas Brigade were Redlegs Jennison's troops were Jay Hawkers. Just to be correct and Historically correct 'un all.
Southern Boys raisin cain my Aunt Tillies Fanny. The irregulars did commit depredations against Unionist Civilians and Neutral Civilians. Lane and Jennison and Blunt did the same but as my Grandma used to point out "Two wrongs don't make a right."
Wake up and smell the coffee. Both sides committed depredations that have no excuse and there is no whitewash to it crack a book there are numerous accounts of Union and Missouri Irregulars depredations.
As I see it, war crimes seemed to have a southern flavor to them.
There was that slaughtering of folks in that town in Mo. by the southern raiders (cavalry).
The famous war crimes seem to have a southern flavor to them.
And I'd suggest to you if you want to delve into irregular warfare in Missouri 1856-1865 you look up some names like.
James Lane
James Jennison
James Blunt
John Fremont
Redlegs
Jayhawkers
Burnt Zone
Order #10
Order#11
You'll find out that just as many opportunists , psychopaths, and antisocial scumbags wore blue and claimed alliegence to the Union as the scumbags who rode under the black flag and claimed allegience to the South.
Oh and by the by. They weren't Southern Cavalry. They were Guerillias. Shelby had Cavalry. Quantrill had irregular riff raff.
Last edited by Borderruffian; 09-24-2007 at 02:51 AM.
You'll find out that just as many opportunists , psychopaths, and antisocial scumbags wore blue and claimed alliegence to the Union as the scumbags who rode under the black flag and claimed allegience to the South.
Heartily concur, Ruff! This was not a nice time for anyone in the area. If you leaned secesh, you got some severe harassment; if you leaned Union, you got some severe harassment. If you didn't lean at all, you got some severe harassment. If you were lucky, no one paid you no nevermind...if you were lucky.
Most of these folks just wanted to be left alone. Where have I heard that before? They had lives that pre-empted the quarrels going on about them, but there was no way to escape the quasi-military swirl that enveloped them.
We talk about who was right, and beat our breasts over this or that outrage by whomever. But the little guy, all of the little guys, got beaten back and forth and back again. I have an idea! Let's declare jihad! That'll fix it.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Lane and Jennison and Gen. James G. Blunt were nothing more than privateers hired by Lincoln and his cronies to rape, kill, pillage and burn along the western frontier. I reckon they didn't care too much what your sympathies were in the summer of 1861. Republican or Democrat, Slave-Holding or Abolitionist, Union, Seccessionist or Neutral were all simply prey in their eyes. Mercenaries hell bent on forcing this war upon US.
Lawrence, Kansas was reprisal for Osceola, Missouri and a hundred other War Crimes Against Southern Civilians my friend and let's not forget it.
Lane and Jennison were commissioned by Halleck and Fremont. Not that that makes their depredations any less horrendous but mercenaries ....no.
Lane was an ardent supporter of the Free-Staters in the 50's as was Jennison. The war in Missouri especially between Redlegs and Jayhawkers and Bushwhackers was a continuation of the free soil war and a settling of scores on both sides.
Heartily concur, Ruff! This was not a nice time for anyone in the area. If you leaned secesh, you got some severe harassment; if you leaned Union, you got some severe harassment. If you didn't lean at all, you got some severe harassment. If you were lucky, no one paid you no nevermind...if you were lucky.
Most of these folks just wanted to be left alone. Where have I heard that before? They had lives that pre-empted the quarrels going on about them, but there was no way to escape the quasi-military swirl that enveloped them.
We talk about who was right, and beat our breasts over this or that outrage by whomever. But the little guy, all of the little guys, got beaten back and forth and back again. I have an idea! Let's declare jihad! That'll fix it.
ole
There is line from The Outlaw Josey Wales which I think pretty much sums up the life of the average civilian living in Missouri at that time.
"You have to be able to sing The Battle Hymn of the Republic or Dixie. With equal enthusiasm."
I cannot imagine living with a "Union" boot on my neck one day, only to wake up and find a "Southern" boot on my neck the next morning.
And I agree it was the people who were trying to live and raise families and crops that paid the price in Missouri. And that is why I'll have no truck with Raiders, Redlegs or Jayhawkers.
C'mon, Larry. You have to admit that Reb targets at Ft. Pillow did manage to change from the initial blue color to another somewhere in the confusion.
Although that may be attributed to the heat of battle, you and I both know that there was a degree of excess.
ole
That ain't exactly the way I read it. Seems the colored troops failed to surrender at the appropriate time? I'm afraid this was another circumstance of folks pointing to black folks and claiming unfair treatment just for propaganda sake. Ain't much changed these 140 plus years. Forrest, in particular, had no distaste for black men. He had known several in his past and had 40 of them close at hand in his command. His record was FAR better than the feds treating German mercenaries in the same theatre.
Why pick on blacks, enough whities to last a man four years.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
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