The greatest ships Captain in US history?

[OpnDownfall]

Any number of the whaling captains' whose unarmed ships Semmes destroyed, could have adequately filled his shoes, as a commerce raider, in those categories that make him the "greatest" ships captain in which he supposedly excelled, except, perhaps, having a taste for destroying good ships.
Semmes made his name and career, destroying unarmed merchant and whaling ships. He studiously avoided contact with naval war ships and the one time he did try to test his ships captain skills against a ready and willing opponent,(and who was also, armed) he came up very much wanting. He is remembered (if at all) as a talented commerce raider, not a naval hero. He may have been the 'greatest' in the CSN but he should have no such ranking in the USN nor in the USA history books..

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by OpnDownfall

Any number of the whaling captains' whose unarmed ships Semmes destroyed, could have adequately filled his shoes, as a commerce raider, in those categories that make him the "greatest" ships captain in which he supposedly excelled, except, perhaps, having a taste for destroying good ships.
Semmes made his name and career, destroying unarmed merchant and whaling ships. He studiously avoided contact with naval war ships and the one time he did try to test his ships captain skills against a ready and willing opponent,(and who was also, armed) he came up very much wanting. He is remembered (if at all) as a talented commerce raider, not a naval hero. He may have been the 'greatest' in the CSN but he should have no such ranking in the USN nor in the USA history books..

You seem to have forgotten USS Hatteras.

[trice]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

You seem to have forgotten USS Hatteras.

Not me, anyway. I know all about USS Hatteras. I even know someone who has dived the site in the Gulf where she lies.

Semmes did a good job of luring Hatteras into range, posing as a British ship, and then opening fire as an inspection party was being rowed between the ships. Given that, it isn't surprising that Alabama took Hatteras, a converted merchantman, so easily.

But what this comes down to is that Semmes fought exactly two Union warships during the war. In the first engagement, with the advantage of surprise, he took Hatteras (a ship he outclassed) easily, just as he should have in that situation. In the second, he deliberately chose to take on a superior warship in the Kearsarge and was handily beaten, his ship destroyed.

The battle against Kearsarge might have been avoidable. As a commerce raider, Semmes made a very risky decision in steaming to meet her. He lost, which indicates this was not a wise choice, although certainly a bold one.

The record, then, is fairly mixed when it comes to his record against armed opponents. In effect, he has only a .500 record. All the rest of his work is against unarmed merchantmen, whalers, and fishing ships. An impressive record as a commerce raider, preceded by a nice USN career before his semi-retirement to lighthouse duty before the Civil War, certainly, but a limited one as a commander in combat.

Tim

[Southern Man]

The Alabama would have won the battle against Kearsarge if her powder and fuses were not wet after being at sea and away from any home port more than any other ship in US history....

[cash]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

The Alabama would have won the battle against Kearsarge if her powder and fuses were not wet after being at sea and away from any home port more than any other ship in US history....

Woulda, coulda, shoulda.

The fact is that Semmes made a poor choice in fighting the Kearsarge, and there are a number of captains in US Naval History who were better than Semmes. That doesn't mean Semmes wasn't any good at all. He was a very good sea captain. He was, however, far from being the best.

Regards,
Cash

[Southern Man]

Originally Posted by cash

The fact is that Semmes made a poor choice in fighting the Kearsarge, and there are a number of captains in US Naval History who were better than Semmes.

Regards,
Cash

Since I have been asked this on this forum, I would like to respectfully ask you to post proof of your statement.

Lets here some numbers.

[trice]

Originally Posted by trice

Please actually ANSWER the questions you are asked instead of attempting cheap rhetorical tricks, and cease your attempts to create confusion and distortion.

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Yes I know about 'their' records, why dont you tell us who was more successful than Semmes.

I have already mentioned several candidates. I note you have again avoided responding to a direct question.

Semmes record in combat is simple: he fought two battles, destroyed the Hatteras, a ship he was superior to, and lost to Kearsarge, a ship he was inferior to.

One of the people I mentioned to you was John Paul Jones.

In February 1776, Jones was a junior officer aboard the Alfred in the raid on New Providence under Commodore Esek Hopkins. After that raid, he was promoted into command of the 12-gun sloop Providence.

In a six-week cruise aboard Providence, Jones captured 16 British ships and caused an uproar along the coast of Nova Scotia. Based on this success, he proposed a plan to attack the British coal fleet at Isle Royale and rescue the Americans held prisoner there. He was given command of the frigate Alfred and sailed 11/2/1776. He was again successful, capturing the British supply ship Mellish bound for Canada with winter uniforms for Burgoyne's troops.

He then feuded with his CO, Hopkins, (as many aggressive officers seem to do with COs) and ended up in command of the 18-gun Ranger (smaller, but a new and fast ship). He was sent to France, where he worked with Benjamin Franklin, John Adams and Alfred Lee, the US commissioners. Ranger became the first US ship to receive a salute from the French, and Jones set sail to raid the British coast, meeting and capturing the HMS Drake, a 20-gun sloop; this was the USN's first victory over an enemy warship. He also landed at Whitehaven and St. Mary's Isle, spreading panic.

Jones then was placed in command of the 42-gun Bon Homme Richard (an older ship that had started to rot badly). With four other ships (Alliance, Pallas, Le Cerf and Vengenance), he struck a British convoy and engaged the escort (HMS Serapis and Countess of Scarborough). In what may be the defining single-ship action of the US Navy, Jones refused to strike and captured the modern 44-gun frigate Serapis. Pallas (32) took the 22-gun Countess of Scarborough, while the rest of Jones' allies either accomplished little or nothing, or perhaps actually fired on Jones and the Bon Homme Richard..

The King of France granted him the title of Chevalier, awarded him the Order of Military Merit, and presented him with a sword. Congress later voted to give him a medal of gold.

With the war ending, Jones was appointed to command the first US ship of the line, the new USS America, but Congress decided to give the ship to the French and Jones was left with the usual fate of warship captains in that day, on the beach without a command.

This is not a complete history of John Paul Jones. He was in other engagements and captured other ships not mentioned here.

The records of various American frigate captains in the war with Tripoli and the war of 1812 are also very, very impressive. The Perry's were outstanding officers. WWII would show you dozens of valiant, skilled, successful captains. While Semmes was a fine officer as well, your first post in this thread makes no attempt to evaluate him realistically and objectively among his peers.

Tim

[cash]

Originally Posted by Southern Man

Since I have been asked this on this forum, I would like to respectfully ask you to post proof of your statement.

Lets here some numbers.

I've already pointed to a number of them. In addition, there's Oliver Hazard Perry, John Rodgers, Isaac Hull, William Bainbridge, and Stephen Decatur in the War of 1812, all of whom performed better than Semmes did against armed opponents. In World War II, Albert Rooks did more while outnumbered by better armed opponents than Semmes did.

Regards,
Cash

[Capt Coxetter]

Originally Posted by ole

It doesn't take much to prey on whalers and merchant ships, and to avoid a handful of vessels that might have given him a contest.
Ole

Except that he was a commerce raider, not a man o' war.

Which is probably lucky for the Yankees, since he kicked their behinds in the one encounter where he DID take on a US Navy vessel!

Capt. Coxetter

[cash]

Originally Posted by Capt Coxetter

Except that he was a commerce raider, not a man o' war.

Which is probably lucky for the Yankees, since he kicked their behinds in the one encounter where he DID take on a US Navy vessel!

Capt. Coxetter

Not quite right. He got his butt kicked by Capt John Winslow of the USS Kearsarge.

Regards,
Cash