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I've always been put off by conversations about slavery in the south. My ancestors didn't fight for slavery. Them that fought for the Union, didn't fight against it. At least that's what my old Pap always said.
With all due respect to your old Pap, he's wrong.
"Confound the whole set of Psalm singing 'brethren' and 'sistern' too. If it had not been for them ... preaching abolitionism from every northern pulpit, I would never have been soldiering." [Pvt. James Williams, 21st Alabama, to his wife, 20 Dec 1861]
"In October [1861], a member of the Third Wisconsin told the _Wisconsin State Journal,_ 'the rebellion is abolitionizing the whole army.' Time in the South forced troops 'to face this sum of all evils, and cause of the war,' slavery. 'You have no idea of the changes that have taken place in the minds of the soldiers in the last two months,' the soldier continued, and the changes were not restricted to Republicans. Now that they saw slavery with their own eyes, 'men of all parties seem unanimous in the belief that to permanently establish the Union, is to first wipe [out] the institution' of slavery. A Missouri private agreed that since 'it was slavery that caused the war,' it would take 'the eternal overthrow of slavery' to win it. Throughout the rank and file, as enlisted soldiers decided that only elimination of the war's cause could end the rebellion and prevent its recurrence, they championed the destruction of slavery a full year ahead of the Emancipation Proclamation, well before most civilians, political leaders, or officers did." [Chandra Manning, _What This Cruel War Was Over: Soldiers, Slavery, and the Civil War,_ p. 45]
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
I growed up in an integrated society. We weren't mixed race. Far from it. We were rural middle class country people. They didn't have to bus the black kids into my school, they were already there. They knew there place and we knew our's. I thought we got along pretty well.
Whites in the times when blacks "knew their place" usually thought things were going along pretty well, as long as blacks continued to "know their place."
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
It weren't like it is now. Far from it.
Thank God it's better now.
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
I'd like to know more about the Southern Aristocracy. Not the slaves and poor whites. Not even the middle class white land owners and shop keepers. The blue bloods. The Planter Class. The Antebellum Mansion plantation and slave owners. I'm not talking about them that owned 2 or 3 slaves either. 200 or 300 or even 2000. Them that owned all them slaves and compelled our great nation into the late great unpleasantness. I still hold a grudge against them fellers.
Who were they? Where'd they come from? Does anybody got a good list of 'em?
Take a look at the members of the secession conventions of the confederate states, then look at the names of the political leaders of the confederacy, then look at the names of the ranking officers in the confederate army.
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
What happened to 'em after the war? They still owned all their land, right? I guess some of 'em probably got chopped up and fed to the wolves, but I'm bettin' most of 'em did alright and they're families are probably still around. Who are their progeny? Where are they today?
Does anybody know?
After the war they continued to fight to make sure blacks "knew their place."
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
I've always been put off by conversations about slavery in the south. My ancestors didn't fight for slavery. Them that fought for the Union, didn't fight against it. At least that's what my old Pap always said.
With all due respect to your old Pap, he's wrong."
I have considerable respect for old Pap. He, at least, knew the people he evaluated, more than some of the lost souls who continue to attempt to perpetuate this silly notion. As for me, I suspect old Pap had it together. My salute to old Pap!
__________________
Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
I have considerable respect for old Pap. He, at least, knew the people he evaluated, more than some of the lost souls who continue to attempt to perpetuate this silly notion. As for me, I suspect old Pap had it together. My salute to old Pap!
Thank you sir. I do too.
Another thing he use to say to us kids was "Wrap my body in a Bonnie Blue Flag and bury me with my feet in the South!"
Last edited by Ozark Iron John : 04-30-2007 at 02:00 PM.
Ain't no amount of elaboration going to make it clear too you.
We are in the midst of ACWII & WWIII. Its happening all around US.
It ain't North vs. South; It ain't East vs. West; It ain't Red vs. Blue or Black vs. White. Its the Have Nots vs. the Have a Littles and the Have a Lots are Winning Again.
And if you can't tell us or show us, that what was the sense in starting this thread?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Ozark, thank you very much for sharing Mr. George and more importantly the relationship between him and his community. My own roots go back to a small town in the mountains of western North Carolina. I had a friend, Mr. Bill Poe who worked at my father's lumber yard. They bought rough sawn lumber and ties from the sawmillers and resold to flooring manufacturers and the Norfolk and Western Railroad. Mr. Poe stood out in the crowd, not because he was black, but because he was extremely neat, kind and a superior human being. Many of us in the South were indeed family, in spirit, if not in fact. Much needed to change after 1950, but much was already headed in the right direction.
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Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Mr. Cash: I reckon you figure that's white trash speak
I don't use the "wt" term just like I don't use the "n" word, except when I quote someone else. I don't personally believe either term applies to anyone.
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
for keeping the black man down. I didn't mean it like that and you know it.
All I know is how it is used, and the only usages I've seen for "knew their place" was that they didn't try to assert they were equal to whites.
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
They brought slaves with 'em. They had too. They had inherited 'em and couldn't just sell 'em down the river. Lord knows what would've happened to 'em then.
They could have freed them.
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
Do you think they'd want to know what I know? Would you want too? How would I go about telling 'em? Where would I begin?
So you can handle having information about your ancestors but they can't?
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Originally Posted by Ozark Iron John
I'm afraid they'd wring my neck and I ain't trying to do nothing but ..... help.
Help what? Help them "keep their place?" Help them succeed in life? Help them buy their groceries? Not a lot of specificity there.
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