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Don't know. Were they keeping stats on that? See first sentence of previous post for answer. What about free blacks in the North? Did they have this protection? Could a free black be whipped for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time?
So basically, you have no idea about anything at all concerning "the lash" as a punishment for whites vs. blacks, yet you posted on it? Why?
Just to get you started:
You said "the lash" was used in "the army and navy (into the 20th century)". In 1812, Congress eliminated flogging in the army, reinstated it for desertion in 1833, and finally abolished it in 1861. In the Navy, flogging was eliminated by Congress in 1850 following a decade-long campaign involving men like Helman Melville (White-Jacket)and Henry Dana (Two Years before the Mast). Melville had served on a notorious "hell ship", the frigate United States where he witnessed the flogging of 163 sailors. Unless you have some further information, you appear to be wrong on this.
The last state law in the US allowing flogging as a punishment was in Delaware, IIRR. That ended in 1960 (some sources say 1972), and was last used in 1952 apparently. In New York, the use of the whip in prisons was banned in 1847. Pennsylvania abolished flogging in 1790, and the last public flogging in Connecticut was in 1828. So where, exactly, were all these whippings you are referring to occurring?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
So basically, you have no idea about anything at all concerning "the lash" as a punishment for whites vs. blacks,
Like I said...I know of no stats on the subject.
How am I to supply such information when there is no source?
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
yet you posted on it? Why?
The impression that some try to give is that the lash was used exclusively in the South and only on slaves.
This is incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
Just to get you started:
You said "the lash" was used in "the army and navy (into the 20th century)". In 1812, Congress eliminated flogging in the army, reinstated it for desertion in 1833, and finally abolished it in 1861. In the Navy, flogging was eliminated by Congress in 1850 following a decade-long campaign involving men like Helman Melville (White-Jacket)and Henry Dana (Two Years before the Mast). Melville had served on a notorious "hell ship", the frigate United States where he witnessed the flogging of 163 sailors. Unless you have some further information, you appear to be wrong on this.
The last state law in the US allowing flogging as a punishment was in Delaware, IIRR. That ended in 1960 (some sources say 1972), and was last used in 1952 apparently. In New York, the use of the whip in prisons was banned in 1847. Pennsylvania abolished flogging in 1790, and the last public flogging in Connecticut was in 1828. So where, exactly, were all these whippings you are referring to occurring?
Tim
I believe you have just described where.
~
I have a report of a public flogging (administered by law) in New York City in 1860. I can probably find more.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
I'm afraid in posting about flogging outside of slavery, the inevitable impression is that somehow "slavery ain't so bad."
or at least "no worse than elsewhere." Maybe that's not the point Battalion was making, but its certainly the impression the reader gets.
Obviously the status of the slave was degraded next to the status of the free, and the power of the slavemaster was much more arbitrary and absolute than any authority over American free people. It's strange that in 2007, someone would have to make this statement.
Of all the arguments somebody can make about the Civil War or the antebellum South, the "slavery ain't so bad" argument is one whose time has truly passed.
Like I said...I know of no stats on the subject.
How am I to supply such information when there is no source?
Then why did you make your post on "The Lash"? What was it you were trying to say, and why?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
The impression that some try to give is that the lash was used exclusively in the South and only on slaves.
This is incorrect.
Who is "some"? I have seen no one here trying to give that impression. If you have, please post a reference to the message. If you have not, then explain why you made your post.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
You said "the lash" was used in "the army and navy (into the 20th century)". In 1812, Congress eliminated flogging in the army, reinstated it for desertion in 1833, and finally abolished it in 1861. In the Navy, flogging was eliminated by Congress in 1850 following a decade-long campaign involving men like Helman Melville (White-Jacket)and Henry Dana (Two Years before the Mast). Melville had served on a notorious "hell ship", the frigate United States where he witnessed the flogging of 163 sailors. Unless you have some further information, you appear to be wrong on this.
The last state law in the US allowing flogging as a punishment was in Delaware, IIRR. That ended in 1960 (some sources say 1972), and was last used in 1952 apparently. In New York, the use of the whip in prisons was banned in 1847. Pennsylvania abolished flogging in 1790, and the last public flogging in Connecticut was in 1828. So where, exactly, were all these whippings you are referring to occurring?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
I believe you have just described where.
OK, you acknowledge that your statement about the military was wrong, that flogging was ended in PA in 1790, and that the last one in CT was in 1828. It seems you are pointing to DE as the example -- a slave state in 1860, right? Any other examples you want to point out at the time of the Civil War?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
I'm afraid in posting about flogging outside of slavery, the inevitable impression is that somehow "slavery ain't so bad."
or at least "no worse than elsewhere." Maybe that's not the point Battalion was making, but its certainly the impression the reader gets.
Obviously the status of the slave was degraded next to the status of the free, and the power of the slavemaster was much more arbitrary and absolute than any authority over American free people. It's strange that in 2007, someone would have to make this statement.
Of all the arguments somebody can make about the Civil War or the antebellum South, the "slavery ain't so bad" argument is one whose time has truly passed.
Again, here we go with the false insinuation game.
The next time you post anything complimentary of Sherman...
I will reply that you must approve of shooting civilians, burning cities and wiping out Indian villages.
Is that a deal?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Then why did you make your post on "The Lash"? What was it you were trying to say, and why?
The subject was brought up by someone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
Quote:
Originally Posted by btn
The impression that some try to give is that the lash was used exclusively in the South and only on slaves. This is incorrect.
Who is "some"? I have seen no one here trying to give that impression. If you have, please post a reference to the message. If you have not, then explain why you made your post.
Tim
This is definitely their intent.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Racism and abolitionism were two completley seperate ideals. The northern sentiment was for abolitionism but they were still of the belief that whites were superior, but that slavery was the ultimate evil that no race should be subjected to. Anybody who does their own research instead of relying on what daddy told them would be aware of this.
__________________ "In mortal combat, a man may and will become so infuriated by the din and dangers of a bloody fight that his heart will turn to stone and his every de sire [be] for blood."
John Hadley, 7th Indiana after the battle at Port Republic
"Perhaps its just as important to remember what the war wasn't about?"
No, Larry, it isn't. There are too many people about who are doing their damdest to say what it 'wasn't' about.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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