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"What This Cruel War was Over" is not a dry read, its pretty interesting. As Trice said, she rigorously looks at letters and other writing from the soldiers, during the war.
It's a lot more complicated then we're expressing here too. The motivations and beliefs of soldiers changed as the war progressed, on both sides, and HOW soldiers believed things. As hardships mounted, HOW the two sides believed affected their ability to sustain their war effort.
Also she provides a context for quotes and beliefs. In quoting one discouraged Confederate, she makes the point that his comrades were much more optimistic.
What was the motivations for desertion on both sides, and on re-enlistment, and how there was a mix of feelings.
"What This Cruel War was Over" is not a dry read, its pretty interesting. As Trice said, she rigorously looks at letters and other writing from the soldiers, during the war.
It's a lot more complicated then we're expressing here too. The motivations and beliefs of soldiers changed as the war progressed, on both sides, and HOW soldiers believed things. As hardships mounted, HOW the two sides believed affected their ability to sustain their war effort.
Also she provides a context for quotes and beliefs. In quoting one discouraged Confederate, she makes the point that his comrades were much more optimistic.
What was the motivations for desertion on both sides, and on re-enlistment, and how there was a mix of feelings.
If it doesn't grab you, grab it anyway. Books coming out 5 years from now will be footnoting citations from it.
Matthew pretty sell summed up the "statistics" part. That was only in explaining how she organized and counted references to statements and when they were made--the foundation for her conclusions, as it were. The meat is not statistical at all.
I especially appreciated her statement that the Union boys quickly understood that the war was started over slavery; that they wouldn't get to go home until slavery was gone; that if the war ended without slavery ending, there would just be another one. Few fought to free slaves, most fought to end the thing that started the war.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I especially appreciated her statement that the Union boys quickly understood that the war was started over slavery; that they wouldn't get to go home until slavery was gone; that if the war ended without slavery ending, there would just be another one. Few fought to free slaves, most fought to end the thing that started the war.
That's very well and clearly said. Few Yankees went to war over slavery, but most ended up by fighting to end slavery so there would be no more war. Thanks; I'll have to remember this.
Now if only we can find a way to clearly get across what Larry is trying to bring us to about Southerners (there really is something there, but I'm not confident that either he or I have expressed the core of it this clearly), we can all sit back, heave a sigh of contentment, and open a beer.
Regards,
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
For those who might wonder who Tom Dixon is:
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Tom Dixon is an elder at Xenos Christian Fellowship in Columbus, Ohio. He also serves as Xenos High School Ministry Director. Tom holds a B.A. and M.A. in history from The Ohio State University. He is known as an exciting lecturer and communicator through numerous groups he leads in central Ohio.
Taken from http://www.xenos.org/MINISTRIES/crossroads/contrib.htm
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For those who might wonder what Xenos is: http://www.xenos.org
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What are Ms. Manning's religious beliefs?
(since you think this is an important item to know)
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
"I've read most of Manning and have concluded that she hasn't totally destroyed the idea that some southern boys didn't enlist nor subsequently fight to preserve slavery--just that more did than some would like to believe. That the logic of "why would they fight when they didn't and wouldn't own slaves?" just doesn't hold up under Manning's study."
My yankee friend pretty much summed up my opinion, the one you guys don't agree with. Harvard never impressed me as a hotbed of conservative, much less Confederate thought. My thoughts on this subject are based on local knowledge which does not necessarily compute with the averages or the results of samples from the big towns or plantations.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
What are Ms. Manning's religious beliefs?
(since you think this is an important item to know)
Once again, this is you inventing something to talk against. I have no idea what Chandra Manning's religious beliefs are, and I have made no attempt to make an issue of Tom Dixon's religious beliefs or anyone else's. However, since you posted a quote from Mr. Dixon, from something called The Death of Truth but with nothing to describe the book, I did wonder what the book was about and what the qualifications of the author were. Since you thought the book had something important to say, I went to check. The post I made was the blurb from the publisher on Mr. Dixon, with a link to it; the book was created by the Xenos group, so I posted a link to their website; and the book is easily available through Amazon, where you can find several reviews of it, so I posted that link.
What I did find interesting is that the book has nothing whatsoever to do with the American Civil War, and Mr. Dixon's article (as far as I can tell from the description) probably doesn't deal with anything in the same century as the American Civil War. What makes you think the quote you posted was meaningful to the discussion? And since you seem to be objecting to posting this information, what is your difficulty with it?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
"I've read most of Manning and have concluded that she hasn't totally destroyed the idea that some southern boys didn't enlist nor subsequently fight to preserve slavery--just that more did than some would like to believe. That the logic of "why would they fight when they didn't and wouldn't own slaves?" just doesn't hold up under Manning's study."
My yankee friend pretty much summed up my opinion, the one you guys don't agree with. Harvard never impressed me as a hotbed of conservative, much less Confederate thought. My thoughts on this subject are based on local knowledge which does not necessarily compute with the averages or the results of samples from the big towns or plantations.
But the big towns and the plantations were still there, and the men from them were still part of the opinions of the soldiers. They fit into the averages, too.
Regards,
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Tim, you remind me of Unionblue..... you are well-spoken, very polite and possess a certain yankee stubborness. No wonder, aside from the Confederate government, that the Union was preserved.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
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