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I just want to say, I appreciate all the debate associated with this thread. I had no idea .... ! Ya'll are great.
I don't know, Cash. I don't think so. "Exploited" is a very relative term. I guess maybe you could say they were being "exploited", but not in the same sense those black Africans who ended up in the West Indies and Central and South America were being "rode hard and put away wet". No, I reckon the blacks that ended up in the United States were not being "exploited", not nearly as bad as them. I reckon they had it pretty good compared to their black brethern who weren't so fortunate as to end up working for / with Johnny Reb.
Their labor was stolen from them and used for the benefit of someone else. They weren't compensated for that labor. It doesn't matter if someone somewhere else was worked to death, they were still being exploited.
Poor whites, when they worked, at least were compensated for their labor, and they supported the slave system.
I'm not saying every confederate soldier consciously fought for slavery, but the evidence is there that the majority did, even those who didn't own slaves. Why would they do this? Because they were honorable men who wanted to protect their families. The prevalent view of the effects of emancipation was the situation in Haiti. There was a great fear of that action being repeated in the United States if the slaves were suddenly set free. The typical southern soldier's aim was to protect his family from that danger by keeping slavery intact.
Regards,
Cash
The majority will have to defend themselves. The rest of us contend that if we didn't fight for slavery consciously, we didn't fight for it at all. The southern soldier aimed to protect his family by killing the invading army. Slavery was not an issue with many of the Southern soldiers. Can't seem to get some of you to understand that. Guess we don't like being pushed into the barrel with the rest of the crackers.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Last edited by larry_cockerham; 05-13-2007 at 12:58 PM.
The majority will have to defend themselves. The rest of us contend that if we didn't fight for slavery consciously, we didn't fight for it at all. The southern soldier aimed to protect his family by killing the invading army. Slavery was not an issue with many of the Southern soldiers.
Right-o....
The South was fighting for its very survival. There were many Radical politicians of the North who stated publicly their intent to exterminate the South. Not just some editorial rant...but pronouncements from elected officials and generals with the same political bent.
The South was fighting for its very survival. There were many Radical politicians of the North who stated publicly their intent to exterminate the South. Not just some editorial rant...but pronouncements from elected officials and generals with the same political bent.
That sounds like you have a hard and fast number to share with us. We know it was not President Lincoln, so please be kind enough to tell us what percentage of the elected Congress expressed this view in 1861-65, and/or what percentage of his appointed Cabinet did. Or do you maintain that they expressed it before they were assaulted by the secessionists in April 1861 -- that would be very intriguing to see, if you had any evidence of it.
That's hogwash Cash. You're blind as a bat and unwilling/unable to see the truth. They were compensated for their labor. Massar gave 'em room, board, clothing, education, training, healthcare, and substantial retirement. Alls day had tadoo wuz pick dat cotton.
Some of 'em had it pretty good compared to the poor whites you claim "supported the slave system". Some of 'em had it better.
Compared to them that ended up in places like French Guyana and/or Brazil, they had it dang good and I don't remember NONE of 'em wantin' to go back to Africa.
I ain't saying slavery was a good thing sir. It was bad, all the way around. But them was tough times, all the way around. You all that want to harp on how evil Johnny Reb was cause he enslaved the black man need to find another tune to sing. I ain't dancin' to it no more.
That sounds like you have a hard and fast number to share with us. We know it was not President Lincoln, so please be kind enough to tell us what percentage of the elected Congress expressed this view in 1861-65, and/or what percentage of his appointed Cabinet did. Or do you maintain that they expressed it before they were assaulted by the secessionists in April 1861 -- that would be very intriguing to see, if you had any evidence of it.
Tim
"do you maintain that they expressed it before they were assaulted by the secessionists in April 1861"
John,
In your post 159 you describe favorably the conditions of the slave. Your description is not accurate especially the part about education, but even if you're weren't being very inaccurate, I would note an inmate in a prison "enjoys" the same conditions. For that matter, so do horses and dogs.
It is very surprising in 2007 to hear nonsense about the wonderful conditions of the slave.
Slavery was not an issue with many of the Southern soldiers.
And I'm equally certain that many of them had other primary reasons for being in the CS Army, conscription, adventure, camaraderie, etc.
I'm glad you used "many" it can mean almost anything except "most" or "all." More than a few, less than most -- sounds about right. In spite of evidence that claims "most" fought with the preservation of slavery foremost in their minds, "many" did not.
Sounds like a reasonable point to settle on.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Of course it matters. Before the shooting started, it would have been an incredibly stupid thing to say. After the shooting started, it's still stupid, but might at least be written off as some radical dumbsh**. Sherman himself said as much on a number of occasions, but his statements proved to have been so much excitable screed -- he talked nasty, but didn't really mean it.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Larry, Ozark etc... you have one fan here... I may not always agree but I appreciate real discourse and I have always felt it is more important to understand where someone is coming from than to agree w/ them.
Ditto. Don't forget Hanny. I'll even toss in Battalion, although it's not often I can determine where he's coming from.
Without these stalwarts, we'd have no reason to question our own convictions. This board would devolve into a mutual admiration society and I'd be having a nap now.
I'll drink to that.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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