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Well, some people seem to think so. The logic seems to be that:
a) Southerners had the right to do anything because they were afraid the North might do something to them.
They were afraid that the North would not enforce the Fugitive Slave Law, and that prohibiting slavery in contiguous slave states would threaten the viability of their slave based economy.
b) Northerners, who were actually being abused by Southern actions from December 1860 to April 1861, had no right to do anything on their own behalf because in doing so they might agitate the Southerners.
c) therefore all aggressive Southern acts are legitimate and no act other than capitulation to Southern desires by the North can be legitimate.
I have never been able to agree with the reasoning behind this. Many arguments about the period seem based on it, however.
Regards,
Tim
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__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
They were afraid that the North would not enforce the Fugitive Slave Law, and that prohibiting slavery in contiguous slave states would threaten the viability of their slave based economy.
Well, sure. But in real terms the effect of the Fugitive Slave Law on escaping slaves was minimal (particularly in the first seven states that seceded) and neither Lincoln nor Seward had planned to prohibit slavery where it already existed. This still comes down to what I was saying: the Southerners felt they could do anything they wished because of what the North might do.
I can understand their fear but being afraid does not give you a license to violate the law. If it did, the North had far more reason to be afraid that the South was about to initiate a war (as they ended up doing) during the Winter of Secession -- yet it was the South that was arming and performing aggressive acts, while the North did almost nothing to prepare for war.
Heck, Northern manufacturers were still selling arms to Southerners as all this went on (a police official in New York City did interfere with one shipment; Georgia responded by impounding and threatening to sell NY based merchant ships in Savannah.)
But if you made up a ledger sheet of who did what to prepare for the war, the Northern tally would be close to nothing. The Southern side would have a hefty balance.
What war was the United States ever prepared to fight?
Not the War of 1812, not the Mexican War, not the Civil War, not the Spanish American War. And the United States was totally unprepared to fight in World War I and wasn't prepared for World War II, although better than the first world war.
By early 1863, the United States had enough money in the pipeline, that its army was getting supplied, what the Confederate army could not counteract.
Most wars were a history of unpreparedness. It was as if war would never come.
Four hundred thousand! I had no idea. I will delve into my library when I get home. Can you point me in the direction of a reference?
BTW, Battalion, though I don't agree with you a lot of the time, you're fighting the good fight. Many others have skedaddled.
Zou
In general, talk of the "Wide-Awakes" as a form of para-military organization was sheer hysteria on the part of Southern Fire-Eaters. Marching societies were common in American politics at that time. In many ways, they were a social club built around party politics, sponsoring balls and outings, and by chance the election marching season happened during the Fall lull in social activity between Summer and the Winter holidays.
Clubs like the "Rocky Mountain Clubs", "Wide Awakes", "Freedom Clubs", and "Bear Clubs" supported the Republicans. "Douglas Invincibles" supported Senator Douglas for the Democrats. Southern political groups, usually associated with the Fire-Eaters/secessionists, had the "Minute Men", but were probably not seen much North of the Mason-Dixon line, just as "Wide-Awakes" were probably not seen much South of it.
Their uniform and equipment, as far as anyone can tell (there does not seem to have been a national organization, so details are scant) was a robe or cape, a military-style glazed hat and a torch six feet in length with a pivoting whale-oil lamp at the top. Supposedly, this getup cost $1.33 at least in Cincinatti, so you can form an idea of the quality involved. Sound like a force of men to be terrified of to you?
These groups paraded through towns and cities, drums rolling and showing off their "rail-fence" formation to crowds as part of the election campaign, supporting their own parties and candidates. To me, it sounds a lot more like a large group of Mummers coming through town. The only report of violence I recall involves Republican "Wide-Awakes" against "Douglas Invincibles" in a few bar-room-brawl political discussions. Mainly, that may have been because there were few places where "Minute Men" and "Wide-Awakes" came into conflict, St. Louis being the most prominent one. There the Governor would support the Minute Men because he favored secession, and the "Wide Awakes" would begin arming in response to his acceptance of the "Minute Men", who started arming first.
400,000 "Wide Awakes" (Radical Republican para-military organizations)...uniformed, drilled and ready to enlist.
Battalion,
No, I do not see where the "Wide-Awakes" represent what you seem to be implying. History seems to see the claim that they did as Fire-Eater propaganda. I'd love to see you present some data on this, as I am sure the rest of the board would.
In order to see let us see what you are talking about, please compare and contrast the "Wide-Awakes to these other political and marching societies of that time: "Rocky Mountain Clubs", "Freedom Clubs", "Bear Clubs", "Minute Men", "Douglas Invincibles" "The 1860 Association", etc. What were the memberships, and what do you base your figures on? What was their official purpose, and /or what do you claim their real purpose was? What did they actually do, as opposed to the rhetoric designed to stir fear about them, and how did the group act when secession and the war came?
It would, indeed be interesting to compare and contrast the Wide-Awakes with other marching societies of that time. Paying particular attention to Douglas' Invincibles and their southern counterpart the Minute Men.
Increasing and arming militia units is much furthern along the road to war than are ad hoc precision marching teams.
After Buchanan replaced the last 'secesh' in his cabinet and sent the "Star of the West" to Charleston, there began to be a movement in the northern states to organize, drill, and fortify their state militias. Up to this time (January 1865), the nothern militias were rather haphazardly organized.
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
After Buchanan replaced the last 'secesh' in his cabinet and sent the "Star of the West" to Charleston, there began to be a movement in the northern states to organize, drill, and fortify their state militias. Up to this time the nothern militias were rather haphazardly organized.
True to some extent, but very haphazard. Massachusett's new governor led the way, pushing his legislature into funding some purchases of arms for the Militia and exhorting other states to prepare. Not too many listened. Southern states were far ahead of them.
By comparison, the Confederate Congress was passing laws to authorize a long-term callup of up to 100,000 Vonunteers from the states, along with a small Regular army. By the time of Ft. Charleston, Davis had actually called for some 32,000 of those Volunteers. Meanwhile, neither Lincoln nor Buchanan had called for a single additional soldier, and the entire authorized strength of the US Army was just over 16,000 -- some 14,000 of whom were West of the Mississippi.
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