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You have seen sources for many things over the year I have been on this Forum; you constantly refuse to acknowledge how they disprove what you claim on this topic and others. It doesn't matter whether the proof comes from me or from others. You simply wish to hide from the facts. IMHO, of course.
In this thread alone, you have already made more than one false claim or deliberate distortion and have not seen fit to acknowledge them.
I will gladly give you more sources -- once you finally show that you are willing to accept the data and admit when you have been shown to be wrong or uninformed.
Until then, leave off this tactic of constantly avoiding the facts and trying to go off on digressions by asking silly questions to avoid the issue. Act like an upright person first; you have avoided your duty in open debate for a very long time now.
How about it? Care to admit that you are trying to sell a bill of goods here? That you are engaging in these deceptive tactics purposefully and will avoid them in the future?
Apologies to all for the obvious irritation here, but enough is enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johan_steele they didn't participate in any battle or campaign, they never fired their weapons at any men in blue.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
What's your source for that one?
More of the same thing referred to in my other post, just directed this time at johan_steele instead of me.
At no time before Farragut arrived in New Orleans were they ever in contact with Union troops. They were not called to active duty by the Confederacy, and in the period of about 5 weeks before that (Feb 15-March 24) they were legally out of existence. They had NEVER been called to service in the field and the only "sevice" anyone can point to before that is their participation in two parades in New Orleans: one in November 1861 and one in January 1862.
By the time they were called upon as militia (technically illegal, since the state legislature had dissolved all militia units as of February 15, but the Governor was desperate in the emergency), New Orleans had been turned into an open city by the Confederacy, and that means all armed forces have to be withdrawn. Lovell had done so, but offered to come back if the city really wished to do fight. They did not, and Lovell did not come back.
The 300 or so LA Native Guard did show up: raggedly armed and equipped, supposedly assigned to the French Quarter by state/city authority. Everyone who thought responsably about it new resistance was useless. Lovell stated it in his reports and defense against his critics. Then as now, a simple break in the levees would flood the city.
The city surrendered. They disbanded. In August, Ben Butler called for these regiments to be recalled, citing the Governor's March message to them to show they existed. (IOW, he needed men, the Lincoln administration could not get them to him, and would not allow him to enlist slaves, so he played Boston lawyer on them to get around it.)
You have exactly *one day* on which they could possibly be said to have been in service under the Confederacy and in contact or near contact with Union troops. No shots are recorded as having been fired by them. This is all very well known. If you have looked at any actual accounts of this, you already know it, yet we find you trying to ignore the facts and put out these quibbling questions. Your only apparent reason for it seems to be to try to scatter red herrings about and act as if there might be some credible reason for challenging the point. I am fairly sure you already know the truth and are simply trying to hide from it.
Please explain yourself fully and clearly. Tell us why you doubt the truth of this when it is clearly stated in many of the sources you must have already seen. And, if you find upon review that you are wrong and have misrepresented the situation: ADMIT IT AS PEOPLE DO.
Did the 1st Louisiana Native Guards ever go into battle alongside Confederate troops?
Unionblue
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
Well, hey...that's a good question.
Did they?
Battalion:
More of the same shoddy tactic mentioned in my other posts: answering a question with a question, trying to throw the other side on the defensive and imply you know something they do not.
Be more direct. If *YOU* think or know the LA Native Guards were ever in battle with Confederate troops, SIMPLY TELL US WHEN AND WHERE that was and WHY you claim it, with sources others can check and verify. If you have absolutely no suport for this false claim of yours, stand up and ADMIT it.
Or are you simply asking questions to confuse the issue in the minds of those who read your posts? If so, please ADMIT THAT.
Again, apologies for the obvious irritation to those reading this, but a year of the distortions, deliberate misquotes and out-of-context quotes, and extremely deplorableable answer-a-question-with-a-question, admit-nothing tactics of Battalion is more than enough. People are entitled to their opinions, and I welcome open debate and argument as a means of learning, but this appears to be a deliberate attempt to avoid that and disinform others, IMHO.
Did the 1st Louisiana Native Guards ever go into battle alongside Confederate troops?
Unionblue
Battalion's reply:
Quote:
Well...hey, that's a good question.
Did they?
Battalion,
As it has been your custom in the past to post source documents, I had the hope that you might have access to some that might have shed some light on this topic, that of the 1st Louisiana Native Guards and if they had served in combat with Confederate forces.
Do you have any information or historical sources that indicate such?
I would appreciate your help.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Did the 1st Louisiana Native Guards ever go into battle alongside Confederate troops?
Unionblue
Quote:
Originally Posted by battalion
Well...hey, that's a good question.
Did they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
Battalion:
More of the same shoddy tactic mentioned in my other posts: answering a question with a question, trying to throw the other side on the defensive and imply you know something they do not.
Be more direct. If *YOU* think or know the LA Native Guards were ever in battle with Confederate troops, SIMPLY TELL US WHEN AND WHERE that was and WHY you claim it, with sources others can check and verify. If you have absolutely no suport for this false claim of yours, stand up and ADMIT it.
I think if you check my reply you will notice I did not make any claim.
I think if you check my reply you will notice I did not make any claim.
Yes, you like to avoid being pinned down. That is why you like answering questions with questions so much.
Be specific: Do you know of any such episode? Do you have any SOLID reason to think they did, when you have been told by me, by others, in this and other threads, that they never did? When the websites, books and accounts you should surely have referred to before this to have any knowledge at all of the situation all say they did not? When the simple timeline of events makes it virtually impossible?
If you did not and do not, then why not simply answer UnionBlue's question by saying "No, I know of none. As far as I know, they never did"? Is that so difficult?
You have seen sources for many things over the year I have been on this Forum; you constantly refuse to acknowledge how they disprove what you claim on this topic and others. It doesn't matter whether the proof comes from me or from others. You simply wish to hide from the facts. IMHO, of course.
In this thread alone, you have already made more than one false claim or deliberate distortion and have not seen fit to acknowledge them.
I will gladly give you more sources -- once you finally show that you are willing to accept the data and admit when you have been shown to be wrong or uninformed.
Until then, leave off this tactic of constantly avoiding the facts and trying to go off on digressions by asking silly questions to avoid the issue. Act like an upright person first; you have avoided your duty in open debate for a very long time now.
How about it? Care to admit that you are trying to sell a bill of goods here? That you are engaging in these deceptive tactics purposefully and will avoid them in the future?
Apologies to all for the obvious irritation here, but enough is enough.
Tim
Do you have the source for the 300? I need that info.
Do you have the source for the 300? I need that info.
Sure do. I have already told you I will give sources to you, and what you have to do first. No one really knows the number, of course, since the unit was barely gathering when they surrendered and no one has ever seen a tallysheet that I know of. So all any source for this will consist of is an "about", and this what I have seen.
While you are preparing to fullfill the conditions, think about this: the entire force in New Orleans after Lovell withdrew, volunteer/militia/whatever, was estimated by various Confederate officers who testified before the Confederate inquiry at about 3,000 all-told. If you check the OR, you'll find them variously described as "half-armed militia of the city", "mostly armed with indifferent shot-guns", "a small force of badly armed militia", "less than 3,000 militia, of which 1,200 had muskets, and the remainder very indifferent shot-guns", etc.
In February, the Governor had told Lovell he had 25,000 or so Militia he could call on for New Orleans. The General asked how many could be armed, even with pistols or cutlasses, and the Governor's office said 5-6,000. After that, some were called up and sent to Vicksburg and points north -- the ones who could be armed, mainly. Others were ordered to the river forts, mutinied, and had to be forced on the steamers.
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