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Treason n the offense of attempting to overthrow the government of one's country or of assisting its enemies in war
From the Constitution:
"Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."
I submit that all Confederates were guilty of treason.
Article II, Section 1: The President
Clause 5
"No person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States."
Article IV: Section 2 - State citizens, Extradition
Clause 1
"The Citizens of each State shall be entitled to all Privileges and Immunities of Citizens in the several States."
I submit Americans were citizens of the United States and that all states must treat all Americans the same. France or any other country never accepted Franklin or Jefferson as citizens from Pennsylvania or Virginia, respectively. They were citizens of the United States of America.
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
You can look at various causes throughout history and I would hardly call the leaders of those movements 'traitors' - Lenin, Castro, Franco, Mao, Cromwell, etc., etc. etc. , the one commonality of all of these causes is that they're all internal agents seeking to effect internal change and for me that makes all the difference. [Quote from CW1865]
A Note: Lenin, Castro, Franco, and Mao bared arms against their governments and would be classified as traitors. A traitor is an internal threat.
These names you mention won their civil wars within their nation unlike your beloved confederacy.
I must submit that Forrest was no traitor, he was merely mad! He did not support secession since he was one of the wealthier men in the country in 1861. That fortune was about to be essentially lost as a result of the war. The others were either professional soldiers or far more closely tied to politics than Forrest. Bedford was a little different from the average man.
Larry:
Read the constitution if a citizen bares arms against the government and there are at least two witness, you are a traitor. I think Forrest meets this requirement, like anyone who served in the confederacy.
While I may not agree with their decisions and their casting their lots with the south. I refuse to cast them as traitors no matter how many times you type it in capital letters.
Ruffie,
Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, Forrest, and the others in the confederate army were citizens who bared arms against our government with the intent to do harm to our government.
No matter how you measure it, it is an act of treason, which makes them all "TRAITORS!!"
Not only were they "TRAITORS" their treasonous acts cost tens of thousands of American lives.
The 'fact' is there was no CSA and never had been. The south were provinces in open revolt against their central gov't in Washington D.C.
Historically, the fate of failed revolutionaries, has been fairly consistent and bloody. It has always been up to the beneficence of the central gov't as to the type and severity of the punishment of rebels (traitors).
The south was indeed fortunate that the Union chose to accept them back as fellow citizens of the country they plunged into a fratricidal war instead of enforcing the normal and accepted punishment for failed revolutionaries.
at that point nobody could stand the thought of more blood being shed, north or south. Also Grant and Lincoln knew that to do such a thing would alienate the south forever, they would never forget and never forgive. The fact that some still don't just goes to show how much worse it would have been if other conditions had been demanded at Lee's surrender.
__________________ "In mortal combat, a man may and will become so infuriated by the din and dangers of a bloody fight that his heart will turn to stone and his every de sire [be] for blood."
John Hadley, 7th Indiana after the battle at Port Republic
Lee, Jackson, Longstreet, Forrest, and the others in the confederate army were citizens who bared arms against our government with the intent to do harm to our government.
No matter how you measure it, it is an act of treason, which makes them all "TRAITORS!!"
Not only were they "TRAITORS" their treasonous acts cost tens of thousands of American lives.
Sad yes!
A few Southerners believe they weren't trying to do harm to the government, but merely improve on it. Hence, the point of discussion. (I suspect our government could still use some help.) A lack of legislative compromise queered the deal. War broke out. The rest is history.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
Read the constitution if a citizen bares arms against the government and there are at least two witness, you are a traitor. I think Forrest meets this requirement, like anyone who served in the confederacy.
Forrest perhaps wasn't bearing arms against the government, but merely the annoying soldiers bearing arms against him? I understand your point and there is some validity to your argument. The "victor" gets to declare who is a traitor and who isn't. That would make the colonies traitors against Great Britain if I follow your logic. Traitor or Patriot, depends on who had the most bullets. Civil war is a bit more complicated. Brother against brother would make castration a painful process for all involved. Grant and the United States Government wisely chose to walk away.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
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