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Did Lee fight for Southern Independence (and slavery) or did he fight for Va. which 'happened' to be fighting for Southern Independence.
Lee was very clear on this during the Winter of Secession in 1860-61. He said repeatedly -- in conversations with those who asked, both acquaintances and friends; in private letters to his family -- that he felt there was no "right of secession", that secession was nothing but revolution, that the Founding Fathers had never intended any such right to exist, and that it would be equivalent to anarchy. He also said, consistently and throughout the same period of time, that he would follow Virginia because that was how he had been educated to believe his loyalties should lie: to Virginia first and the US second.
He was true to himself in this. Virginia seceded and Lee followed her. When he says after the war that he would do the same thing again in the same circumstances, I am sure he meant what he said and that the above is what he meant by it. Lee was a remarkably consistent and steadfast man.
In passing, after the war Lee also believed that the North had fought the war over this question of whether or not the "right of secession" existed. He regarded the question of the existence of a "right of secession" as permanently settled by the war. The North won, so there was no such right. This would be a fairly consistent with the views he held in 1860-61, regarding the Civil War as an instance of the "natural right of revolution".
I agree Trice, my point is, that Lee was Not an Enigma, his reasons for his beliefs and actions were simple and straight forward and well documented.
Fighting for Va., meant that Lee saw the war through a restricted lense, what was good for Va. May not have been what was good for the Confederacy.
After 2d Bull Run (or even Chancellorsville), would not sending significant reinforcements to Johnston, to save Vicksberg or Bragg in Tn, have been a better solution to Confederate chances of winning the war?
This is not necessarily a matter of hindsight, attention to the gathering storm in the West, was being paid by officials in Richmond, including the President and, even, some in the AoNV officer corps. But, one of the main reasons that relief to the West was not forthcming, until too late, was the quiet but uncompromising opposition of Lee, who saw the safety of Va. as THE paramount reason for the existence of the Army of Northern Virginia.
IMO It was no accident that Lee's army was not just the Army of Va.
But, one of the main reasons that relief to the West was not forthcming, until too late, was the quiet but uncompromising opposition of Lee, who saw the safety of Va. as THE paramount reason for the existence of the Army of Northern Virginia.
Very interesting observation and something to chew on for a while. Thank you for consistently raising angles that hadn't crossed my mind.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
For me Lee will always be an enigma, a man often baffling in his actions and his letters and dispatches.
Some may take the simple answer that Lee was merely fighting for Virginia. But that is too simple an explanation. Virginia was fighting for Virginia and the Confederacy. One could not easily say one was totally separate from the other. One could not really fight for Virginia, and then not fight to perserve the ownership in some half a million slaves?
Yet, for decades Lee served the United States as an officer, collecting a paycheck from the treasurer in Washington, D.C., resigns his U.S. Army commission, and almost immediately accepts a commission in the Virginia state army, prepared to fight the U.S. forces, if necessary. Perhaps for some, they see that as an easy decision for Lee to make?
But, I would have asked Lee this question. Did you give any thought to the future of your wife's estate in Arlington, Virginia and what might happen to her wealth?
Did Lee think there might not be a war, or that "national" boundaries might not change?
General Lee, what did you think of the chances of Confederate independence, at the beginning of the war? When did you begin to think the chance of independence was less than half?
Did you ever tell Jefferson Davis that all was lost, and that it was best to consider peace negotiations?
General Lee, did you ever think of the Virginia soldiers and the other soldiers of the Confederacy in your army, who died after the war was lost?
Whitworth, all those questions was/were immaterial to Lee, they may or may not have given him pause, but his duty to Va. was clear, as was the question of which (Union or Va.) had his first allegience.
Some times the needs of the Confederacy and Va. coincided, guarding the Capital of the Confederacy; at other times it did not, the necessity of winning the war in the West.
Militarily, for Lee, the Confederacy was Northern Va. It has been speculated, whether Lee would actually have retreated out of Va, even if he had managed to elude Grant, in his retreat from Petersberg.
I think Lee's relationship with Davis was another of his successes. What other general had the trust and support that Lee won from Davis? (except, unfortunately, Bragg)
Lee has been criticized about being too narrowly focused on Virginia. But that was his job, as commander of the ANV, which was his role until nearly the end of the war. Any ANV commander would have been focused on Virginia. Richmond being the capital certainly didn't discourage anyone in the CS government being "Virginia First" as well. It was Davis's responsibility to juggle the various needs of the CSA, or to appoint a overall military commander in chief to do the same, as Lincoln tried to do with Halleck, and finally did with Grant.
Lee has an enigmatic quality in part because he refrained from in indulging the feuds and spats that consumed the energies of his commanders, a policy that enhanced his authority over his proud, high spirited generals. Lee's enemies always worn blue, which wasn't always the case with Beauregard, Stuart, Longstreet, Early, Johnston, Bragg and others.
Lee died before writing his memoirs(he made some lackluster attempts to organize his papers for that purpose) or engaging in the post war controversies. If he had been drawn into those arguments, he would have inevitable taken fire from one side or the other.
In the last years of his life he expressed a harsh disgust with warfare, in general, as a way to resolve disputes.
Can't come down solidly on Lee one way or another. He's an enigma. However, that doesn't deter me from inserting $0.02 or a foot somewhere.
Lee was a soldier. He's been desribed in far more mysterious and esoteric terms, but I like the simpler explanations. Why he accepted Virginia's commission instead of his country's may always escape me. Gods and Generals has him worried about the invasion of his state. (I know! Geez!) His wife's properties would have been far safer had he gone Union. So he obviously had other things on his mind.
Back to the top. Lee was first and foremost a soldier. His father was a soldier/hero (among other things), He had ridden under the stars and stripes for what -- 30 + years? So living apart from his wife and family most of his adult life, he get's all mooshy about Virginia. Something just doesn't add up. Enigma is certainly an apt name for the thread.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Lee died before writing his memoirs(he made some lackluster attempts to organize his papers for that purpose) or engaging in the post war controversies. If he had been drawn into those arguments, he would have inevitable taken fire from one side or the other.
I wonder if his own ambivalence wasn't the reason he was so close with his post-war comments. Perhaps he simply went with the flow and didn't have any deep commitments, one way or another.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
If ever an army should've quit, the German army in 1945. It has parallels with the CSA in 1865. But they fought on, hopeless situation, couldn't win. Maybe men wrapped up in a cause they believe in just keep going because they don't want to admit their cause is lost?
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Lee the Enigma????? 
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