CivilWarTalk.com - A free and friendly Civil War community.
CivilWarTalk.com
The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk  

Go Back   The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk > The Backpack - Essential Discussions > Civil War History - General Discussion

Civil War History - General Discussion For Discussions on Civil War Era Personalities, Politics, Issues, Campaigns, Battles, and more. Serious Civil War Discussions Only Please! All other posts will be deleted.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #81  
Old 07-19-2006, 02:54 PM
ole's Avatar
ole ole is offline
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,025
Default

IAm:
I used "Davis' War" just for variety. It isn't exactly accurate, but then other appelations aren't either. Earlier, he cautioned against secession, but when it was a fact and he was in charge, he pursued it with a vengeance. For example, the attack on Ft. Sumter is often characterized as method of forcing Virginia into the Confederacy -- the Confederacy was powerless without Virginia, so he was willing to go to war to secure her to his side; hence, Davis' War.
Ole
__________________
I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #82  
Old 07-19-2006, 04:20 PM
Private (25+ posts)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: St Charles, MO
Posts: 107
Default

Well Ole, I think using "Davis' war" is quite appropriate. West Point trained with meritous service in the US Army he took quite an active some would say an overbearing role not only in strategic Confederate military operations but infringing on the tactical as well. Though he gave Lee a well earned "wide berth" in regard to his military operations I think it fair to say "His Excellency" was in the face of most of the senior CSA command from the starting gate. Civil government as the CinC was not his forte.
Respectfully,
Spartan
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #83  
Old 07-19-2006, 08:46 PM
johan_steele's Avatar
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of the North 40
Posts: 3,853
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
Hmmmmm........

In the Atlanta Campaign Sherman had 80-100,000 men (varied at different times). Johnston and Hood had 50-60,000.

In the Savannah Campaign Sherman had 60,000 to the Confederates 15-20,000......Carolinas Campaign- 60-80,000 to the Confederates 30,000.

If the numbers had been reversed...
...would Sherman have "vastly outclassed" his Confederate opponents?

~~~

Atlanta Campaign-
Battle............................................ .........Victor:
Resaca............................................ .........Draw
New Hope Church/Pickett's Mill/Dallas..............Confederate
Kennesaw Mtn............................................Con federate
Peachtree Creek..........................................Fed eral
Atlanta........................................... ..........Confederate
Ezra Church............................................ ...Federal
Jonesboro......................................... .........Federal

...looks like the Confederates gave a good account of themselves despite being outnumbered almost 2 to 1.

Peachtree Creek, Atlanta, Ezra Church Jonesboro... were what happened when Hood went after Sherman & the AoT US. If they had been competantly planned and executed they might have worked. There was no lack of prowess or courage that lost those battles... poor planning and the AoT (US) lost the CS those fights. The CS high command learned from their lickings. Hood spent the monthes after Jonesboro running from a fight w/ Sherman and going after small garrisons... though he learned a hard lesson at Allatoona.

At Peachtree Creek, Atlanta, & Ezra Church the CS troops outnumbered their US opponents. Incidently Atlanta as a CS victory... calling the battle of Atlanta anything but an unqualified disaster. Hood lost 5000 men. The Union AoT suffered about 3,700 casualties; they gave up no ground after being suprised and attacked from three seperate directions.

If you like I might give you some sources to broaden your mind... I might suggest Castel's Decision in the West or Cannan's Atlanta Campaign

Incidently there is a military maxim; if you have it use it. Sherman had it and he used it.
__________________
Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #84  
Old 07-20-2006, 12:13 AM
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 16
Default So I've been thinking...going back to topic A

That Sherman sure does have a lot of defenders. This makes me happy. When you think about it. Sherman saved a LOT of lives by helping to end the conflict. Personally, I would burn down a hundred plantations to save the life of one person. Granted this was not the point, but I hope everyone would agree with me because that IS morality!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #85  
Old 07-20-2006, 12:20 AM
Battalion's Avatar
Sergeant Major (1750+ posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmHistory
That Sherman sure does have a lot of defenders. This makes me happy. When you think about it. Sherman saved a LOT of lives by helping to end the conflict. Personally, I would burn down a hundred plantations to save the life of one person. Granted this was not the point, but I hope everyone would agree with me because that IS morality!
Yes, burned houses, towns, and cities...

...leaving young, old, and infirm...homeless...and exposed to the dead of winter...
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #86  
Old 07-20-2006, 12:27 AM
Cadet
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 16
Default Good Point, but

The city I live in was burned to the ground 2 times and nearly a 3rd by the Brits well before the civil war...we got over it. From a structural standpoint, I'm sort of glad... I would hate to see what some of this place would look like if they had rundown buildings dating back to the very early 1800s...YIKES! I'm about preservation to a degree, but I def like new and clean.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #87  
Old 07-20-2006, 12:58 AM
Battalion's Avatar
Sergeant Major (1750+ posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johan_steele
Peachtree Creek, Atlanta, Ezra Church Jonesboro... were what happened when Hood went after Sherman & the AoT US. If they had been competantly planned and executed they might have worked. There was no lack of prowess or courage that lost those battles... poor planning and the AoT (US) lost the CS those fights. The CS high command learned from their lickings. Hood spent the monthes after Jonesboro running from a fight w/ Sherman and going after small garrisons... though he learned a hard lesson at Allatoona.

At Peachtree Creek, Atlanta, & Ezra Church the CS troops outnumbered their US opponents. Incidently Atlanta as a CS victory... calling the battle of Atlanta anything but an unqualified disaster. Hood lost 5000 men. The Union AoT suffered about 3,700 casualties; they gave up no ground [sure about that?] after being suprised and attacked from three seperate directions.

If you like I might give you some sources to broaden your mind... I might suggest Castel's Decision in the West or Cannan's Atlanta Campaign

Incidently there is a military maxim; if you have it use it. Sherman had it and he used it.

answer- http://civilwartalk.com/forums/civil-war-history-south-western-theaters/24857-confederate-victory-west-battle-atlanta-21-22-july-1864-a.html
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #88  
Old 07-20-2006, 08:39 AM
johan_steele's Avatar
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of the North 40
Posts: 3,853
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
Yes, burned houses, towns, and cities...

...leaving young, old, and infirm...homeless...and exposed to the dead of winter...

Dead of Winter in Georgia... IIRC the US AoT never even drew greatcoats that winter... more rhetoric please.
__________________
Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #89  
Old 07-20-2006, 08:40 AM
johan_steele's Avatar
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: South of the North 40
Posts: 3,853
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
More detail in refuting the revisionist (at best) claim that Atlanta was a CS victory provided there.
__________________
Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI

For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #90  
Old 07-20-2006, 09:34 AM
Battalion's Avatar
Sergeant Major (1750+ posts)
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,798
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by johan_steele
Dead of Winter in Georgia... IIRC the US AoT never even drew greatcoats that winter... more rhetoric please.

Actually, it wasn't winter yet when Sherman went through Georgia...even so there were still several days of severe weather-


November 21, left camp at 12 m., weather rainy and unpleasant; marched through Hillsborough, camping about dark near said place. November 22, marched at 7 a. M., weather very unpleasant and cold, with snow...


November 21....A very heavy, cold rain fell all day, and marching was quite difficult...The rain ceased toward night and the air became very cold.
November 22...the Weather was extremely cold....Weather to-night intensely cold...


November 22...The night was severely cold, and there was much suffering among the men...


November 21...Rained all day.
November 24...The Weather was very cold, and the fences were set on fire to make the halts more comfortable.


Wednesday Dec 7" 1864
Up early and on the move at 7 AM proceeded down the south bank of the Ogeechee. Our Brigade having the rear - Marched 10 mile and went into Camp a mile from the river just opposite Eden. It rained most awful hard today - rain came down in perfect torrents.



...-and several other days of rain and extreme cold in December.


Please do a little research before you post....

Last edited by Battalion; 07-20-2006 at 01:34 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:29 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Back to top
Bringing the American Civil War to Life. Copyright © 1999 - 2008, CivilWarTalk.com. Site Version 4.3
The American Civil War | Forum | Resource Center | Image Gallery | Links | Site Map | XML | Donations