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There was considerable burning and looting during the Gettysburg Campaign. Lee forbid it, as did Sherman, but both were powerless to curtail it absolutely. And I don't believe you can show that Lee didn't know about the burning of Chambersburg.Name one.
Ole
I don't claim that Confederate soldiers did not loot and burn, but I can't find any account of it. Sherman, on the other hand, swore to make Georgia "howl". He bragged often and loudly about what he would do to Southern property. If he ever meted out any diciplinary action for his soldiers looting or burning against his orders, I can't find any accounting of that either.
Of course I can't prove that Lee did or did not know about Chambersburg, but I believe it would be totally out of character for him to condone such actions.
To name one thing worse than losing would be to win the war, but lose your integrity and honor in the process. A nation without honor can never be truly great.
Just more of my humble opinions.
Regards,
Rose
__________________ "Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names".--J.F.K.
The War Between the States established... This principle that the Federal Government is, through its courts, this final judge of its own powers.
-- Woodrow Wilson
By the way, one of the trustees of Louisana State University, of which Sherman was briefly president, has proposed to name a building after him, to honor the first president of LSU.
But not the fire fighting training school there.
Sherman proposition debated By JESSICA FENDER
Capitol news bureau
Published: Jul 7, 2006
Sen. Robert Barham, R-Oak Ridge, last month got the Legislature to pass a resolution in favor of putting Sherman’s name on a campus building. “I became aware that LSU had a tradition of naming buildings for former presidents,” Barham said. “I just thought it was noteworthy that the first one had no recognition.”
Sherman, the acting superintendent who followed him and LSU’s third superintendent do not have buildings named for them. Namesakes must be dead for two years before LSU etches their names on its buildings. Barham’s resolution and an Advocate editorial in favor of a Sherman building have set talk radio and editorial pages ablaze with criticism and support of the idea.
Jim Wharton, chemistry professor and a former LSU chancellor, said Sherman sets a poor example for students.
“He conducted total war … which meant he burned the crops, killed domestic and draft animals. It was a war against the civilian population,” said Wharton, who formerly served on the committee that recommends names for buildings on campus.
Wharton points out that Sherman was also responsible for the massacre of Indians in Oklahoma. He said Sherman’s contributions — aside from leading the university — would not be enough to get him a building nowadays. http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/3292491.html
There is more of the report. Some speak for Sherman having a building named for him, but I doubt it's going to happen.
Rose
__________________ "Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names".--J.F.K.
The War Between the States established... This principle that the Federal Government is, through its courts, this final judge of its own powers.
-- Woodrow Wilson
::shakes head:: Rose, I do respect your opinions, though they differ from many on this board...but humble doesn't seem to describe them well. Be honest here, your mind is made up that Sherman is in fact the devil reincarnated and there is no way you will see any other way... even if it turns out that he never even stepped foot into georgia or the carolinas. I think that is the first step to your "healing." Please take no offense. It's all in good fun, after all. <---hey, I like this guy, too! 2nd best general in the war!
Rose, I do respect your opinions, though they differ from many on this board...but humble doesn't seem to describe them well. Be honest here, your mind is made up that Sherman is in fact the devil reincarnated and there is no way you will see any other way... even if it turns out that he never even stepped foot into georgia or the carolinas. I think that is the first step to your "healing." Please take no offense. It's all in good fun, after all. <---hey, I like this guy, too! 2nd best general in the war!
Sure, my mind is made up. But, I do humbly and respectfully offer my personal opinion about Sherman. I promise that if it turns out that he never set foot in Georgia or the Carolinas, I will change my mind, publicly apologize, and change my ringtone from "Dixie" to "The Battle Hymn of the Republic".
Seriously, there is no "healing" needed. This is simply a message board to express views and discuss history.
Regards,
Rose
__________________ "Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names".--J.F.K.
The War Between the States established... This principle that the Federal Government is, through its courts, this final judge of its own powers.
-- Woodrow Wilson
No problem Ole, I read two seperate first hand accounts from Indiana troops that were in the rear guard when the pontoons were pulled. Both accounted seeing Union troops trying to provide cover fire for the slaves on the other side of the swollen creek but finding that. IIRC one was quite angry that Wheelers men were out of range of his rifle. Both accounted seeing hundreds of slaves pile into the swollen creek in an effort to cross. Many of the men in the pontoons pulled freed slaves aboard their pontoons.
There are numerous accounts of Wheelers men charging into the slaves gathered at Ebeneezer Creek and of rounding the survivors up to gleefully return to slavery. IIRC Battalion was kind enough to provide a reference to 1400 or so slaves being rounded up by Wheelers men.
I recall seeing a figure of 2500 slaves killed by Wheelers men. I initially thought the number impossibly high, then I read the accounts of hundreds drowned trying to cross the creek. Over the years various sources led me to believe that something truly evil happened there; far uglier than anything at Ft Pillow. While Wheelers men may have been largely responsible it was Davis who orchestrated the pulling of the pantoons.
Jeff Davis, US General, was not well known for accurate reports... and he certainly would have been interested in CYA if the situation warrented it. This was the man who murdered General Nelson (Union) and got away w/ it. I think in this case Sherman accepted the report on the incident.
The incident is brushed upon in several works; I will make an effort to look them up.
Sherman to Halleck 12 January 1865:
"...that ****-and-bull story of my turning back negroes that Wheeler might kill them is all humbug. I turned nobody back. Jeff. C. Davis did at Ebenezer Creek forbid certain plantation slaves- old men, women, and children-to follow his column; but they would come along and he took up his pontoon bridge, not because he wanted to leave them, but because he wanted his bridge. He and Slocum both tell me they don't believe Wheeler killed one of them...." http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-b...TIF&pagenum=36[/quote]
*
Sherman's Memoirs-
"...On the occasion referred to, the bridge was taken up from Ebenezer Creek while some of the camp-followers remained asleep on the far ther side, and these were picked up by Wheeler's cavalry. Some of them, in their fright, were drowned in trying to swim over, and others may have been cruelly killed by Wheeler's men, but this was a mere supposition...." http://www.sonshi.com/sherman22.html
*
Wheeler's report, Savannah Campaign, 24 December 1864-
"...On the night December 8 we shelled the camp of the Fourteenth Corps with good effect, throwing the corps into confusion and causing it to leave camp at midnight, abandoning clothing, arms. &c. By breaking up the camp during the extreme darkness a great many negroes were left in our hands, whom we sent back to their owners. We also captured three wagons and teams, and caused the enemy to burn several more wagons. The whole number of negroes captured from the enemy during the movement was nearly 2,000...." http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-b...IF&pagenum=410[/quote]
Battalion; thank yopu for giving so much credence to Sherman's own words. I wonder if you are so quick to quote him when he isn't saying what you like?
As to Wheeler... I agree w/ Forrest on the man.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
From Sherman's own memoirs. Let's be consistant if we are going to use his words as proof. "...a soldier passed me with a ham on his musket, a jug of sorghum-molasses under his arm, and a big piece of honey in his hand, from which he was eating, and, catching my eye, he remarked sotto voce and carelessly to a comrade, "Forage liberally on the country," quoting from my general orders. On this occasion, as on many others that fell under my personal observation, I reproved the man, explained that foraging must be limited to the regular parties properly detailed, and that all provisions thus obtained must be delivered to the regular commissaries, to be fairly distributed to the men who kept their ranks."
We found abundance of corn, molasses, meal, bacon, and sweet-potatoes. We also took a good many cows and oxen, and a large number of, mules. In all these the country was quite rich, never before having been visited by a hostile army; the recent crop had been excellent, had been just gathered and laid by for the winter. As a rule, we destroyed none, but kept our wagons full, and fed our teams bountifully.
"The skill and success of the men in collecting forage was one of the features of this march. Each brigade commander had authority to detail a company of foragers, usually about fifty men, with one or two commissioned officers selected for their boldness and enterprise. This party would be dispatched before daylight with a knowledge of the intended day's march and camp; would proceed on foot five or six miles from the route traveled by their brigade, and then visit every plantation and farm within range. They would usually procure a wagon or family carriage, load it with bacon, corn-meal, turkeys, chickens, ducks, and every thing that could be used as food or forage, and would then regain the main road, usually in advance of their train. When this came up, they would deliver to the brigade commissary the supplies thus gathered by the way. Often would I pass these foraging-parties at the roadside, waiting for their wagons to come up, and was amused at their strange collections--mules, horses, even cattle, packed with old saddles and loaded with hams, bacon, bags of cornmeal, and poultry of every character and description. Although this foraging was attended with great danger and hard work, there seemed to be a charm about it that attracted the soldiers, and it was a privilege to be detailed on such a party. Daily they returned mounted on all sorts of beasts, which were at once taken from them and appropriated to the general use; but the next day they would start out again on foot, only to repeat the experience of the day before. No doubt, many acts of pillage, robbery, and violence, were committed by these parties of foragers, usually called "bummers;" for I have since heard of jewelry taken from women, and the plunder of articles that never reached the commissary; but these acts were exceptional and incidental. I never heard of any cases of murder or rape; and no army could have carried along sufficient food and forage for a march of three hundred miles; so that foraging in some shape was necessary. The country was sparsely settled, with no magistrates or civil authorities who could respond to requisitions, as is done in all the wars of Europe; so that this system of foraging was simply indispensable to our success. By it our men were well supplied with all the essentials of life and health, while the wagons retained enough in case of unexpected delay, and our animals were well fed. Indeed, when we reached Savannah, the trains were pronounced by experts to be the finest in flesh and appearance ever seen with any army."
Those are Shermans words...
To the People of Georgia:
Arise for the defense of your native soil! Rally around your patriotic Governor and gallant soldiers! Obstruct and destroy all the roads in Sherman's front, flank, and rear, and his army will soon starve in your midt. Be confident. Be resolute. Trust in an overruling Providence, and success will soon crown your efforts. I hasten to join you in the defense of your homes and firesides.
G. T. BEAUREGARD
To the People of Georgia:
You have now the best opportunity ever yet presented to destroy the enemy. Put every thing at the disposal of our generals; remove all provisions from the path of the, invader, and put all obstructions in his path.
Every citizen with his gun, and every negro with his spade and axe, can do the work of a soldier. You can destroy the enemy by retarding his march.
Georgians, be firm! Act promptly, and fear not!
B. H. Hill, Senator.
To the People of Georgia:
We have had a special conference with President Davis and the Secretary of War, and are able to assure you that they have done and are still doing all that can be done to meet the emergency that presses upon you. Let every man fly to arms! Remove your negroes, horses, cattle, and provisions from Sherman's army, and burn what you cannot carry. Burn all bridges, and block up the roads in his route. Assail the invader in front, flank, and rear, by night and by day. Let him have no rest.
JULIAN HARTRIDGE
MARK BLANDFORD
J. H. ECHOLS
GEO. N. LESTER
JOHN T. SHUEMAKE
JAS. M. SMITH
Just as a note, this is a CLEAR call from the CS govt to civilians to fire upon US troops thus inviting retaliation upon the civilian populace. Not very responsible... or honorable.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
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::shakes head:: Rose, I do respect your opinions, though they differ from many on this board...but humble doesn't seem to describe them well. Be honest here, your mind is made up that Sherman is in fact the devil reincarnated and there is no way you will see any other way... even if it turns out that he never even stepped foot into georgia or the carolinas. I think that is the first step to your "healing." Please take no offense. It's all in good fun, after all. 
<---hey, I like this guy, too! 2nd best general in the war!
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