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I am interested in hearing any thoughts about the possibility and likely result of a second uprising from the South.
I believe the time for the South to assert her independence is gone, illegally and unconstitutionally denied to her. The men and women that comprised the spirit of the Southern patriot, so determined to have independence, is all but gone. Their children are being taught that their fathers were wrong, that they were traitors and lawbreakers. And, too many of those children have been indoctrinated to accept the Northern version of their Southern history and heritage. Some, in their ignorance, are even ashamed of their ancestors. It's unfortunate, but there aren't enough strong, capable patriots left to form a Jeffersonian type government, which was the goal of the Southern people in 1860. Minimal government is something we will, unfortunately, never live to see. I find that very sad.
JMHO,
Rose
__________________ "Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names".--J.F.K.
The War Between the States established... This principle that the Federal Government is, through its courts, this final judge of its own powers.
-- Woodrow Wilson
Location: North Carolina is my home. I own 20 acres in Texas.
Posts: 39
I agree with you Rose. The heart and soul of the South was its willingness to do what is right under any circumstance. We have been exposed to the vulgarity of corruption so long that are becoming disheartened. Only God knows what will come next for the place we so love.
I generally try to stay out of the political threads, both 19th and 21st century but, given the state of the world and the threats to our country that seem to escalate almost daily I am going out on a limb to reply.
Everything in this post is opinion, based generally on observation. Politically, I consider myself a moderate Jeffersonian Democrat (even though my liberal friends think I become more facist every day and my conservative Southron friends accuse me of being slightly to the left of Stalin).
Will the South rise again? I certainly hope so, but not as the south. Instead, I hope that the small government, romantically chivalrous and fiercely patriotic (albeit to another country ... but it seems we have already beat that topic to death) ideals of the average southron will someday be the standard for all americans. I am sick to death of the current administration's attempts at further fragmenting this country. Red States vs Blue States, White vs Minority, Rich vs. Poor, Christians vs everybody else. I feel that today, America is no more representative of the ideals on which this nation was founded than the Communist countries of the last three decades are representative of the pure communist ideals.
Our government sanctions the oppression of minorities (the response to Katrina was in my opinion a perfect example of passive oppression), rules the population with a campaign of fear (what color is it today, and what do the colors mean anyway? If it goes to red should I take an umbrella?), destroys the ecosystem to accomodate the profits of friends (Alaskan drilling, south american watershed destruction, etc.) all while decrying the effects of the liberal press (that may have been accurate in the 60's but not any more ... Fox Hysterical News should use the republican symbol as a backdrop).
Let the south rise again to help us all find the original path and drag this nation, kicking and screaming, back to the ideal on which it was founded. I was born a yankee, naturalized a Texan and now live in a part of PA that can seem more southern than Atlanta. Just pick a different battleflag, I'm sick of the deafening crack that can be heard when so many "liberal" minds snap shut on seeing the SA Cross.
Ok, off the soap box again. Sorry if I ruffled any feathers but it is hot and humid here and I am getting cranky. If I wanted tropical weather and unrelenting humidity I would have stayed in Houston.
Later,
TomH
(BTW: Confederate_Outlaw, thanks for being there for the rest of us. Be safe and my prayers go with you.)
Location: North Carolina is my home. I own 20 acres in Texas.
Posts: 39
First, thank you Tom for your support of the troops and your support of the Southern cause. I couldn't agree more with your words. I have actually said some of the very things you have said in other threads (similarities of communism seeping into our government, equality on all levels being forced down our throats, etc). Although I know there will never be another uprising under the Stars and Bars I believe that ultimatly the war was and is about the morale and morality of a nation. If we don't fly any flag when the next one comes around I hope we will fly the Christian flag (figurativly speaking) and restore the morality of our society.
How I struggle to reply to your posts above and how I have tried to refrain from having anything to do with this particular thread, for personal reasons.
Confederate Outlaw, I appreciate your service to your nation, the United States of America. As a former Army member, I appreciate your sacrifice and efforts to keep us here in this country free and safe, I truly do.
I feel that the Confederate States of America is long dead and buried, and rightly so. It is my own personal opinion that it's creation was a national tragedy, needless, without merit, both in a moral and social sense. It causes me almost physical pain to see your sign off signature statement, 'God Bless The Confederate States of America' as it implies that creature, that brief social and political entity, deserved God's blessing. It did not, not by a long shot. Any political entity that advocated the continued existence of enslaving millions deserves no praise nor prayers. The Confederate States of America is exactly where it deserves to be, in the ground, in the past, studied and viewed from afar as a historical event.
It is my own personal belief that the people of the South were denied no Constitutional rights, had no financial or trade complaints worthy of bringing on the deaths of hundreds of thousands and were more than adequately represented in the United States government. My own personal belief is that many were led astray by those who held power in the South to protect an institution that represented millions of dollars to those in power and represented a form of social control to the average Southerner.
Was the South evil because of this? Was the average Southern man or woman or child a devil with horns, gleefully keeping millions in bondage? No. No more than the average Northern man, woman or child were angelic in nature and demanding that the slaves be freed.
In my own view, the South was not the Confederacy and the Confederacy is not the South. The South of today has very little in common with 1861-1865 and I doubt very seriously if it wishes to return to that time or that social condition.
I will also comment on another view you have stated, that you wish to 'next time' fly the Christian flag and restore the morality of our society. I would oppose such an effort with all of my might and all of my soul, as I consider this view, while well-intentioned, one of the most dangerous threats to freedom and democracy ever proposed. I am more terrified of persons, well intentioned Christians in particular, to do something 'for my own good.' More evil and more crimes against humanity have been committed by religious views than any other throughout this planet's hsitory.
No, I am not an atheist, I believe in a God, an afterlife and being judged and held accountable for my 'sins.' But that is between me and my God and is a very personal thing and in no way would I hold my religious standards against anyone else. The people you are opposing in Afganistan and Iraq are holding millions to what they consider the proper religious standard and have no compunction murdering thousands to enforce that standard.
No, I will continue to support the idea that my country, the United States of America, with all of it faults and flaws, with all of its supposed corruption, is still the best hope for us, and the rest of this planet. Because no matter how many times we screw it up, we come back to the idea that each individual is entitled to freedom, freedom of speech, freedom of choice, freedom of worship (or not to worship), freedom to decide for ourselves who we are and who we want to be and just how far we wish to go to accomplish that goal.
There are problems, there are bad men, in and out of government and out here amongst us, even beside us at times. But I have faith in young men like you, I have faith in Wild_Rose and all the members of this board, to keep this nation on track and true to its Founders. The South is another region I have faith in, as its views and strengths, do nothing but assist this nation in keeping on its path to the future. I have nothing but confidence in our nation, its people, and its ultimate destination.
If I didn't, I wouldn't have bothered serving it and standing by it.
Respectfully,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Location: North Carolina is my home. I own 20 acres in Texas.
Posts: 39
I admire your feelings for your country and I share many of the same feelings for it as well. However, I believe the plights of the Confederacy were acceptable and needed for the time. Today, if the South had won, we still would not be perfect, if slavery had been left intact, it would no longer be acceptable and would have been abolished eventually anyway under any government. The very core of the success or failure of a country is its willingness to focus on morality and by that I mean keep the laws of God the laws of the land. The South is and has always been very spiritual. I myself am a Christian and where I am from I could throw a rock in just about any direction and hit a Baptist church. The Baptist church believes that you can be forgiven for doing wrong - but TRY to avoid doing wrong. Up there in the North the Catholic church believes you can do wrong and some guy in an expensive robe will forgive you. The North has always been self forgiving in it's personal life as well as in the government. The South tries to avoid wrong doing and looks to the Lord for guidance. Thats the mark of a great country in my mind.
__________________
GOD BLESS THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Last edited by Confederate Outlaw; 07-15-2006 at 07:18 AM.
I admire your feelings for your country and I share many of the same feelings for it as well. However, I believe the plights of the Confederacy were acceptable and needed for the time. Today, if the South had won, we still would not be perfect, if slavery had been left intact, it would no longer be acceptable and would have been abolished eventually anyway under any government. The very core of the success or failure of a country is its willingness to focus on morality and by that I mean keep the laws of God the laws of the land. The South is and has always been very spiritual. I myself am a Christian and where I am from I could throw a rock in just about any direction and hit a Baptist church. The Baptist church believes that you can be forgiven for doing wrong - but TRY to avoid doing wrong. Up there in the North the Catholic church believes you can do wrong and some guy in an expensive robe will forgive you. The North has always been self forgiving in it's personal life as well as in the government. The South tries to avoid wrong doing and looks to the Lord for guidance. Thats the mark of a great country in my mind.
I'm sorry here but the Catholic church holds no sway over the North... I have no idea where you might have goten that idea. At most you will find one Catholic Church in a community and several baptis, Episcipol, Assy of God etc... less religious in the North than the South? No my experiance does not bear that out.
There are no generalizations in the world.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
[Up there in the North the Catholic church believes you can do wrong and some guy in an expensive robe will forgive you. ]
You are woefully ignorant about Catholic belief. Do you think there were no Catholics in the South? Remember, friend, that the Vatican was the only state in the world who recognized the Confederacy, and after the war the Pope sent Jefferson Davis a crown of thorns woven by his own hand.
Only a crass insult to my beliefs would bring me onto a thread like this. By insulting my beliefs, you insult me personally.
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