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...and believe Buisson would be the logical choice.
So you have seen no reference to them in a Brigade OoB? I know I haven't.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I only make note of the caption supplied with the photo- "1861"...and that every time I have seen this photo (in books, etc.) it always states that it is of Confederate origin.
Light blue.......but do they appear that light in photos?
The uniforms may very well be...pre-war militia uniforms...
...as to the guns they may have been brought in for the occasion.
The real solution is-
Whoever in the 'audience' that has a book with this picture in it...
...can look up the source...and tell us.
Fair enough?
I believe the photo to be incorrectly dated; simple as that. The visual evidence points to Union Corps De Afrique or USCT in at least late 62 w/ 63 being more likely. The apparent presence of P53 Enfields cements that in my mind.
As to the guns being brought in for the occasion... you're kidding right? For a photographer to have a half dozen P53's sitting around to use as props... it's a ridiculous suggestion. If you are suggesting the state of LA handed them out for a photo op... the state was not in the habit of issuing 1st rate arms to 2nd class troops which is what they viewed the 1st LA Native Guard as at the very least. If they viewed them as troops at all. To my knowledge there is no paper trail of the 1st LA Native Guard ever being issued arms from the state.
If you wish a true analysis of the photo I suggest you join the Authentic Campaigner and post the pic w/ a question. You'll get the right answer... from people far more knowledgeable than I will ever hope to be. Though likely it will not be an answer you will like. Actually upon further reflection if you were to do a search I believe the photo might have been discussed in detail on that site.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
"What's significant...are the lies that have been told and perpetuated by Northern "historians"...about this group...and just about anything else related to this aspect of history."
Battalion, what lies are your referring to?
You further state in your post:
"I will challenge all of their preferred assumptions/interpretations on this subject."
What preferred assumptions/interpretations on the subject of Black Confederates do you allude to?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I am not taking a "side" in this discussion, but -in the interest of adding to our well of information- I am offering the following URL to an interesting article: http://www.kinstonpress.com/columns/ward/
Excerpt:
"In South Carolina, a slave named April was trained by his white master in several trades. The slave's master went to court and freed him when April was a young man. The former slave took his master's name, William Ellison. Ex-slave Ellison eventually had several thriving businesses, owning considerable land holdings and more than 60 slaves. In 1860, Ellison was counted among the top 10 percent of wealthiest men in South Carolina. He, too, was known as a cruel taskmaster.
"William Ellison had three sons whom he sent to Canada for their education. When the War Between the States began, the three sons became uniformed Confederate soldiers, and their father supplied the Confederate Army with various war materials. "
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not know whether the foregoing can be documented, but for what it's worth, there it is.
Thank you, Will, for putting some meat on the table. The article is interesting and seems to provide sustainable statistics. I wish the gentleman had provided details on the service of the 3 sons, but it is enough for now to appreciate that you found and posted some genuine information.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I am not taking a "side" in this discussion, but -in the interest of adding to our well of information- I am offering the following URL to an interesting article: http://www.kinstonpress.com/columns/ward/
Excerpt:
"In South Carolina, a slave named April was trained by his white master in several trades. The slave's master went to court and freed him when April was a young man. The former slave took his master's name, William Ellison. Ex-slave Ellison eventually had several thriving businesses, owning considerable land holdings and more than 60 slaves. In 1860, Ellison was counted among the top 10 percent of wealthiest men in South Carolina. He, too, was known as a cruel taskmaster.
"William Ellison had three sons whom he sent to Canada for their education. When the War Between the States began, the three sons became uniformed Confederate soldiers, and their father supplied the Confederate Army with various war materials. "
----------------------------------------------------------------------
I do not know whether the foregoing can be documented, but for what it's worth, there it is.
Will Posey
Will,
While it is known that there were some blacks with the Confederate Army and I would assume some specific examples (such as Mr. Ward is citing) can be documented, either his overall statistics are wrong or they will show some bizarre conditions if you dig into them.
For example, he tells us that:
=====
In a 1997 issue of The Barnes Review, Robert M. Grooms in his essay, "Dixie's Censored Subject: Black Slaveowners," noted the 1860 census that determined fewer than 385,000 individuals owned slaves. Had all of them been white, only 1.4 percent of whites in the country or 4.8 percent of Southern whites would have owned one or more slaves.
Federal census reports of June 1, 1860 showed nearly 4.5 million Negroes in the United States, with fewer than four million of them living in the southern slaveholding states. Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were free. In the Deep South, 10,689 lived in New Orleans. John Hope Franklin again records that in New Orleans over 3,000 free Negroes owned slaves, or 28 percent of the free Negroes in that city.
=====
I looked at the historical US Census data for 1860 at the University of Virginia (http://fisher.lib.virginia.edu) to see how close this was.
This article is telling you that 75% of all the slaveowners in New Orleans were "free Negroes". It is also telling you that less than 1% of the non-colored free population (roughly 1,000 out of some 150,000) in New Orleans owned slaves. I don't know about you, but that fails the reasonablity test with me.
I would suspect he is playing "fun with numbers" to make things come out to support his point. Either that, or there were some really unusual situations in the city of New Orleans. That might be, since more than 80% of the slaveholders and 95% of the slaves in the state are outside of New Orleans in the census. It is very common to find people hiding what they don't like by being selective in the data they show you.
On the slave states:
The article tells us that "In 1860, before The War Between the States, 25,000 free blacks living in the South were slave owners." He also tells us that "Of the blacks residing in the South, 261,988 were free", so he's a little higher than this source. He tells us that of slaveholders in the South "Had all of them been white, only 1.4 percent of whites in the country or 4.8 percent of Southern whites would have owned one or more slaves."
But do you really think some 10% of all the free blacks in the South owned slaves? Double the maximum possible for whites? Or do you think something fairly bizarre is being said here? That maybe the article is twisting things into unrecognizable form?
The author tells us that "In North Carolina, 69 free blacks owned slaves." Wow. That would be about 0.2%, not the expected 10%, of the free colored population: 1/50th of what his other statement would lead us to believe for a state.
If you look at the numbers in the chart above, you'll see that almost 104,000 of the 250,787 free colored population live in DE or MD -- and there are less than 89,000 slaves in those two states. Only 14,370 slaveholders in those 2 states, so if 10% of the free colored population owns slaves there, only about 3,900 of those slaveholders are white. Think that will work out? Or do you think maybe something is fishy with this guy's numbers? Or that some bizarre condition needs to be discovered to account for all this?
Since we know the stats look skewed on these states, some other state would have to account for the difference if his overall number is to prove out. Take a look at the list above and tell me which state is going to have a very high Negro slaveowner percentage to make up for the vanishly small number in NC. Or do you think maybe we're looking at something unreliable in his claims? Florida, maybe, where there are almost no free colored people?
Or do you think maybe when he says "free Negro" he really means something else, and has artificially inflated his number?
But do you really think some 10% of all the free blacks in the South owned slaves? Double the maximum possible for whites? Or do you think something fairly bizarre is being said here? That maybe the article is twisting things into unrecognizable form?
Regards,
Tim
With all due respect, Sir, I hold no position in thought on these numbers matters. I merely brought the article to this board because I thought it might be of some interest, not that I in any way endorse what the author wrote. I am glad, though, that you find it interesting enough to do some research on its subject matter.
If you don't know how many of the free Negroes of the 1st Louisiana Guards joined the Confederate forces, then you have little cause to compare those who did not with those who did join the Union forces. I believe the point remains on the side of those who volunteered in the Union Army -- whatever reception notwithstanding. We were, after all, talking about volunteering.
Ole
Quote:
Originally Posted by joha
Have you managed to find record of any member of the 1st LA Native Guard in any CS unit? I know I haven't.
There was a good bit more at stake for any of the Native Guard to join CS forces...
....like having your property confiscated by "Spoons" Butler...
...also there was the little matter of getting past roads guarded by Federal cavalry...
...but anyway here are some name matches of those who may have joined the CS army. There are many matches with common names (both Anglo & French). I haven't examined those...and don't plan to. Most of these are of the less common variety (makes the match more certain)-
Antoine, Joseph, Pvt. 1st Native Grds. La. Militia. On Roll dated New Orleans, La., Nov. 23rd, 1861, "For Active Service. Within the State."
Antoine, Joe, Pvt. Co. G. 27th La. Infty. En. New Orleans, La., March 20th. 1862. Present on Rolls to Dec., 1862. Federal Rolls of Prisoners of War Captured and Paroled at Vicksburg, Miss., July 4th, 1863. Reported for Exchange at Shreveport, La., April 1st, 1864. On Rolls of Prisoners of War Paroled at Shreveport, La., June 8th, 1865. Res., Alexandria, La.
~~~
Auguste, Pierre, Pvt. 1st Native Grds. La. Militia. On Roll not dated, "Ordered Into Active Service of the State."
Auguste, Lufoy Pierre, Pvt. Co. K. 16th La. Infty. En. Sept. 29th, 1861, Camp Moore, La. Present on All Rolls from Sept., 1861, to Oct., 1862. Roll for Nov. and Dec., 1862, "Colored Man. Dropped from Roll by Order of Col. Gober, Dec. 8th, 1862."
-or-
Auguste, J. B. P.[Jean Baptiste Pierre], Pvt. Co. I. 28th (Thomas') La. Infty. En. New Orleans, La., April 15th, 1862. Regtl. Returns for Aug., 1862, and Sept., 1862, "In Gen. Hospl., Miss. Springs." Federal Rolls of Prisoners of War Captured and Paroled Vicksburg, Miss., July 4th, 1863.
Arthur W. Bergeron, Jr., "Free Men of Color in Grey," Civil War History, Vol. XXXII, No.3, 1986.
~~~
Augustin, James, Corpl. 1st Native Grds. La. Militia. On Roll not dated, "For Active Service Within the State."
Augustin, James, Pvt. Cos. A. and D. 30th La. Infty. En. Dec. 27th, 1862. Port Hudson, La. Present on Rolls to June, 1863. Roll from July, 1863, to April, 1864. "Absent. Detached Service, Mobile." Roll for Nov. 1st, 1864, to Feb. 28th, 1865, "Absent. Detailed by Med. Board, Unfit for Service, Jan., 1865." Paroled *******n, Miss., May 12th, 1865. Res., New Orleans, La.
~~~
Blanchard, Nichols, 1st Sergt. 1st Native Grds. La. Militia. On Roll dated New Orleans, La., Nov. 23rd, 1861, "For active service within the State."
Blanchard, Nichols, Pvt. Co. H. 28th La. Infty. (Thomas'). En. April 17th, 1862, Assumption Par., La. Present on Rolls to Feb. 28th, 1863. Federal Rolls of Prisoners of War, Captured and Paroled Vicksburg, Miss., July 4th, 1863.
("Nichols" is extremely rare as a first name...so not likely to be two "Nichols Blanchardses")
~~~
Coulon, Jules, Pvt. Co. ___ 1st Native Grds. La. Militia. On Roll dated New Orleans, La., Nov. 23rd, 1861.
Coulon, Jules, Pvt. Co. E. 18th La. Infty. En. Feb. 10th, 1863, New Iberia, La. Remarks: On Rolls to Aug., 1863. Absent. Employed in Gen. Hospl., New Iberia, since time of enlistment. Later appears on the Rolls of Cons. 18th Regt. and Yellow Jacket Battn. La. Infty. as Coulon, J., Pvt. Co. B. Roll for Jan. and Feb., 1864, Absent. Detailed on Regtl. business in Mansura, La., since Feb. 24th, 1864.
~~~
Degrui, Eugene, 1st Native Grds. La. Militia. On Roll not dated ordered into active service of the State of Louisiana.
De Gruy, E. J. (also De Gruy, Eugene), Pvt. Co. F. Crescent Regt. La. Infty. En. March 5th, 1862, New Orleans, La. Roll for May and June, 1862, Died in Hospl. at Corinth, May 7th, 1862.
~~~
Durand, Charles, 1st Native Grds. La. Mil. On Roll not dated, Ordered into service of the State of Louisiana, within the limits of the City of New Orleans.
Durand, Chas., _ Co. F, Miles Legion La. Vols. Roll dated May 17, 1862, Recd. Bounty and enlisted, but not present at the muster. Roll to June 30, 1862, Deserted at time of taking of New Orleans. Bounty was paid him. On the Co. being mustered in his name appears on Rolls as a Deserter. since which time he has been dropped.
(deserted...but didn't join the Feds)
~~~
Felix, Joseph, Pvt. Co. -, 1st Native Grds. La. Mil. Appears on Roll dated New Orleans, La., Nov. 23, 1861, ordered into active service of the State of Louisiana.
Felix, _ (Colored), Pvt. Cook, Capt. Fenner's Batty. La. Lt. Arty. En. July 1, 1862, Jackson. Present on all Rolls to Dec., 1863, from time of enlistment.
~~~
Ferbos, Ulysse, Pvt. Co. -, 1st Native Grds. La. Mil. Roll not dated states Present, ordered into the service of the State of Louisiana.
Ferbos, Ulysse, Pvt. Co. H, 4th La. Inf. En. Sept. 27, 1862, Port Hudson, La. Present on Roll to Oct., 1862. Roll for Nov. and Dec., 1862, Absent, sick, in Hospl. at Clinton, La. Rolls from Dec. 31, 1862, to June, 1863, Absent. Left sick at Port Hudson. Rolls from July, 1863, to Sept., 1864, state Absent. Left sick at Port Hudson, and taken prisoner. Federal Rolls of Prisoners of War show him captured at Port Hudson, La., July -, 1863.
(not to many "Ulysse Ferboses" in the world)
~~~
Joly, F., Pvt. Co. -, 1st Native Grds. La. Mil. Appears on Roll not dated, ordered into active service of the State of Louisiana.
Joly, F., Pvt. Co. K, Chalmette Regt. La. Mil. En. March 2, 1862, New Orleans, La. Present or absent not stated on Roll dated March 6, 1862.
(joined another militia company after Native Guard disbanded?)
~~~
Montreuil, J. J., Corpl. Co. -, 1st Native Grds. La. Mil. Appears on Roll not dated, ordered into the service of the State of Louisiana.
Montreuil, J., Pvt. Capt. Dreux's Cav. Co. A, La. Roll dated June 30, 1864 (only Roll on file), En. March 7, 1862, New Orleans. Present.
Montreuil, Jules, Pvt. Dreux's Cav. Roll of Prisoners of War, C. S. A., Paroled *******n, Miss., May 9, 1865. Res. New Orleans, La
Last edited by Battalion; 06-12-2006 at 11:53 AM.
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