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Do you have a point here? The letter I showed you is Howell Cobb of Georgia, a major figure in American politics for a generation. He served as:
- as a US congressman (1843-51; 1855-57)
- as Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives (1849-51)
- as governor of Georgia (1851-53)
- as secretary of the US treasury (1857-60)
He was a leader in the secession movement in GA in 1860-61. Following Georgia's secession from the Union , he served as:
- president of the Confederate Provisional Congress (1861-62)
- a major general of the Confederate army(until 1865).
Twice voted the Thanks of the Confederate Congress. Pardoned by Andrew Johnson, he died in the lobby of the Fifth Avenue Hotel in New York City in 1868. Buried in Athens, GA.
So what you have here is a major Confederate/secessionist politician protesting to Davis in January 1865 about the contemplated first-time usage of blacks as soldiers by the Confederacy. Is there some problem with your ability to acknowledge that?
He went from President of the Constitutional Convention in 1861 to
Major-General (due more to politics than military ability) in charge of organizing the Reserves of Georgia by 1864
(Desk job, HQ- Macon, Ga).
The reserves consisted of four regiments of infantry...most of their service involved guarding prisoners.
"At the battle of Chickamauga the Fourth Tennessee Cavalry was dismounted to fight as infantry, every fourth man being told off to hold horses. These horse-holders, and also all of the colored servants, were kept in the rear. The colored men numbered about 40, and having been in service a long time, had gradually armed themselves. Some of them were even better equipped than their masters, for on successful raids and battles they could follow in the rear and pick up those things that the soldiers had no time to secure; so that these colored servants could each boast of one or two revolvers and a fine carbine or repeating rifle.
During all of the early part of the battle of Chickamauga, the Fourth Tennessee Cavalry had been fighting as infantry, and as it became evident that a victory was to be won, Col. McLemore, commanding, ordered Captain Briggs to return to the horse-holders, and after placing the horses, teams, etc., under charge of the servants, to bring up the quarter of the regiment in charge of the horses so that they might take part in the final triumph. Capt. Briggs, on reaching the horses, was surprised to find the colored men organized and equipped, under David McLemore, colored (servant to the Colonel of the regiment), and demanding the right to go into the fight. After trying to dissuade them from this, Capt. Briggs led them up to the line of battle which was just then preparing to assault Gen. Thomas's position. Thinking they would be of service in caring for the wounded, Capt. Briggs held them close up the line, but when the advance was ordered the negro company became enthused as well as their masters, and filled a portion of the line of advance as well as any company of the regiment.
While they had no guidon or muster roll, the burial after the battle of four of their number and the care of seven wounded at the hospital, told the tale of how well they fought that day."
He went from President of the Constitutional Convention in 1861 to
Major-General (due more to politics than military ability) in charge of organizing the Reserves of Georgia by 1864 (Desk job, HQ- Macon, Ga). The reserves consisted of four regiments of infantry...most of their service involved guarding prisoners.
I can't believe you are seriously minimizing Howell Cobb's importance to the Confederacy by trotting out his war-time service. That he was serving at all is a tribute to his dedication to the cause. What would you have him do, supplant Jeff Davis or NB Forrest? Most of the movers and shakers sat on their behinds during the war stirring up trouble and arm-chair-quarterbacking. At least Mr. Cobb pitched in to help -- however humbly.
Quote:
While they had no guidon or muster roll, the burial after the battle of four of their number and the care of seven wounded at the hospital, told the tale of how well they fought that day.
Yet another of the rare stories of armed blacks fighting for the Confederate Army. I don't know of anyone who claims that no black ever picked up a weapon to shoot at Yankees. Yours is an interesting tale, but proves no point I can think of. I will venture that 4 dead and 7 wounded indicates that they received some fire -- not that they fought well.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Yours is an interesting tale, but proves no point I can think of. I will venture that 4 dead and 7 wounded indicates that they received some fire -- not that they fought well.
Ole
You missed this part-
"...filled a portion of the line of advance as well as any company of the regiment...."
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
"...Some people say negroes will not fight. I say they will fight. They fought at Ocean Pond, Honey Hill, and other places...."
-Black participation on the Confederate side in battle-
Understand?
His opinions on the subject...
...were not.
Understand?
Battalion; I'm not sure you understanad that the man was referring to the USCT. Not CS fighting men of dark skin.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
The highlighted portion of my post.....
...was the -purpose-...
...of the post... "...Some people say negroes will not fight. I say they will fight. They fought at Ocean Pond, Honey Hill, and other places...."
-Black participation on the Confederate side in battle- Understand?
Nope. The man who wrote the letter to Davis is arguing that since negroes fought well for the Union at those places, they will fight as well or better for the Confederacy. He says that although he would personally prefer not to arm blacks, he believes the Confederacy should do it in this extremity of the war.
For some bizarre reason of your own, you are trying to twist what he clearly says into a statement that there were "black Confederates" at the battles of Olustee (Ocean Pond) and Honey Hill. It is well known which units fought in those battles on both sides. There are several Union black units (the USCT and the Massachusetts ones) involved. There are no Confederate ones. If you think that is wrong, just show us which Confederate units you think were composed of black soldiers and provide documentary evidence to support what you say.
This is obviously a deliberate distortion policy on your part, and for some reason you feel you must continue with it. As I have said, it is a foolish one. Every time your dissembling and deliberate omissions are shown, your credibility drops lower on the issue, and everyone reading these posts will know that. I urge you to drop this tactic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
His opinions on the subject...
...were not. Understand?
Nope. If you want to be understood, you will need to explain yourself more clearly and concentrate on the facts.
He went from President of the Constitutional Convention in 1861 to
Major-General (due more to politics than military ability) in charge of organizing the Reserves of Georgia by 1864
(Desk job, HQ- Macon, Ga).
The reserves consisted of four regiments of infantry...most of their service involved guarding prisoners.
Battalion, you need to stop spending all your time inventing ways to discredit things you don't like. The whole point of Howell Cobb writing directly to President Davis directly is that he is a recognizable political force, well known to the President. He had the name to get the President's attention, and it wasn't because he was a great soldier.
I don't agree with your contention that there were "black Confederates" in any large number or recognizable force. I have presented lots of evidence about how the Confederacy refused to even consider that idea until 1865. You continue to follow a policy of quoting out of context and making unsupportable charges and slinging mud to discredit any Confederate who said things you do not wish to acknowledge. This is a very poor policy on your part. It can only make you look bad, and discredit the ideas you wish to put forth. I believe you should drop it and try another approach.
Battalion, you need to stop spending all your time inventing ways to discredit things you don't like. The whole point of Howell Cobb writing directly to President Davis directly is that he is a recognizable political force, well known to the President. He had the name to get the President's attention, and it wasn't because he was a great soldier.
Regards,
Tim
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