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"...At Cairo, Ill., I first came in contact with what were then called contrabands-over 1,500 men, women, and children huddled together in insufficient quarters, the helpless drawing rations from the Government, and the able-bodied men employed in the various departments of the Government as laborers to the extent they were required. Compensation, $10 per month and one ration per day. I found the mortality of the place had been very great, especially among the children-measles, diarrhea, and pneumonia being the prevailing diseases-and this subsequently I found to be the case at all other points visited by me where large numbers were collected....
I do believe he might have found similar instances of disease in any large Union Army Camp in 1862-65 in fact he would would have as disease was rampant where large numbers of people gathered. In fact in any of these bits the word Army could replace Contraband and the results would be the same and not unexpected to the modern reader.
If the poster needs to check; Dysentery, aka diarrea was a far bigger killer than bullets to the CW soldier (both North & South). Large groups of men gathered in one place w/ dubious water sources and sanitation disease followed... we know why now, they didn't in the time.
$10 a month & 1 ration per day... again this is truly shocking I'm stunned, truly stunned, that the US govt was paying people who had been slaves. Black men were actually being paid for their work, a shocking concept I'm sure. A totally new concept for many of them. Was it an honest days pay for their labor? Not really but it was better than nothing... and the fact that money was considerably more than the average CS soldier was paid by his govt is quite telling.
As I said it is picking and choosing only the negative and it is done for a reason.
Olerebel has a valid point in saying that many people wanted to give freedom but had no idea what to do afterwards. It is also quite true that conditions for many former slaves didn't improve until 1870... and I have no doubt that improvement would not have happened if the Union had not prevailed. I have seen nothing that would convince me that slavery would not STILL be a cherished institution south of the Mason Dixon if the CS had prevailed. Unfortunately, what occured after the CW for the black man and woman was tantamount to apartheid. And that is an national sin, not just a southern one.
__________________
Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
I do believe he might have found similar instances of disease in any large Union Army Camp in 1862-65 in fact he would would have as disease was rampant where large numbers of people gathered. In fact in any of these bits the word Army could replace Contraband and the results would be the same and not unexpected to the modern reader.
If the poster needs to check; Dysentery, aka diarrea was a far bigger killer than bullets to the CW soldier (both North & South). Large groups of men gathered in one place w/ dubious water sources and sanitation disease followed... we know why now, they didn't in the time.
So you are claiming that the rate of mortality in contraband camps was the same (or similar) to Federal military camps?
What sources do you have to support that idea?
Quote:
Originally Posted by johan_steele
...As I said it is picking and choosing only the negative and it is done for a reason.
"picking and choosing"-
I challenge you to find a positve item about these camps.
You may find one item out of 10 that could be described as "positive"....
...more than likely you will find zero.
1st a note on General Lorenzo Thomas... he was known to support neither the war or the Presidents call for arming black troops and he and Stanton were at odds from the starts. THere is some question (I believe it is debatable) as to whether or not he ever really adequetly accomplished his job as Adjutant General of the Army. As a note IMHO the only thing that kept Genl Thomas from a court martial for dereliction of duty was the excellent work of a subordinate, E.D. Townsend.
Benton Barracks... look it up as you mention it in your initial post. The mortality rates of USCT based there was little different than white troops.
Hmmm positive things about contraband camps? Lets see for one men were actually being paid for their labor. They were free from slave catchers & frequest "slave roundups"... I could go on but I have a feeling anything I say will not be good enough.
The sources I have of Union mortality rates is only a lot of reading and the knowledge that a man was far more likely to die of disease than a bullet... or do you contest this well known fact?
If so I encourage you to do a little research try here: http://www.civilwararchive.com/regim.htm
Take a few minutes and look at regiments and note the disparity between those killed in combat vs disease.
The kind of sources, lets see period letters, journals, diaries, ledgers showing the deaths in hospitals and the causes of those deaths. Just for your info roughly 225,000 Union troops died of disease and about 165,000 CS. Diseases such as pneumonia, typhoid, dysentery, scurvey, ganorrhea, syphillis were all quite lethal. If you are having a hard time finding sources then try any of these; they should be available at your local library... if not they should be through interlibrary loan... you asked for my sources so here are a few that I have read that directly contradict your premise.
Doctors in Blue by Adams A History of the Medical Department of the United States Army by Ashburn Buff Facings & Gilt Buttons by Boone Civil War Medicine by Brooks Doctors in Grey; the Confederate Medical Service by Cunningham Regimental Losses in the American Civil War by Fox Numbers and Losses in the Civil War in America by Livermore Campaigns of the Civil War Supplementary Volume Statistical Record of the Armies of the United States by Phisterer Disease in the Civil War by Steiner
and of coarse the vital THe life of Billy Yank or The Life of Johnny Reb by Wiley
For good legitiimate info on Black men serving the Union might I suggest: The Sable Arm: Negro Troops in the Union Army by Cornish Men of Color by Gladstone Forged in Battle: the Civil War Alliance of Black Soldiers & White Officers by Glatthaar Memoir of Lorenzo THomas by Townsend Like Men of War by Trudeau
I could add more but I have neither the time nor inclination.
__________________
Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
If so I encourage you to do a little research try here: http://www.civilwararchive.com/regim.htm
Take a few minutes and look at regiments and note the disparity between those killed in combat vs disease.
The kind of sources, lets see period letters, journals, diaries, ledgers showing the deaths in hospitals and the causes of those deaths. Just for your info roughly 225,000 Union troops died of disease and about 165,000 CS. Diseases such as pneumonia, typhoid, dysentery, scurvey, ganorrhea, syphillis were all quite lethal. If you are having a hard time finding sources then try any of these; they should be available at your local library... if not they should be through interlibrary loan... you asked for my sources so here are a few that I have read that directly contradict your premise.
Your claim in a previous post >
"I do believe he [L.Thomas] might have found similar instances of disease in any large Union Army Camp in 1862-65 in fact he would would have as disease was rampant where large numbers of people gathered. In fact in any of these bits the word Army could replace Contraband and the results would be the same and not unexpected to the modern reader."
...........does not jive with these numbers >
Federal Losses
..........................Total #......Deaths by disease(inclu.POWs)....Mortality
Federal Army........2,778,304..............224,586........ ...................8.1%
USCT.....................178,975...............29, 658..........................16.6%
Some of the Union camps reached mortality rates (IIRC) in the 40% range. Benton Barracks had a higher than normal rate as did the camp in (IIRC) Helena Arkansas.
Also few of the Union Army camps had children and the old. Children and the old typically are more susceptible to disease and when placed in a camp w/ exposure to infectious diseases... the mortality rate would be expected to be higher. If you take a look at refugee camps in any war where there are records you will find a significantly higher mortality rate than one might reasonably expect.
In my own experiance dealing w/ refugees from Kosovo & earlier Bosnia I learned one thing... refugees by their very status upon arriving at any kind of camp are inherently unhealthy. From poor or nonexistant diet, often long and exhausting marches to even get there and more often than not they are moved around the camp dozens of times... and the stress involved doesn't do anything for the health of the refugees. Today the mortality rates of a refugee camp are considerably lower than 25%... unless we are talking about Rwanda or anywhere else in Africa where epidemics have a tendency to cut through refugee camps and IIRC in one case left well over 60% dead.
As a note; Kosovar refugees had one thing in common w/ contraband camps... an almost unreasonable fear of dogs. Care to hazzard a guess as to why... both cases are quite similar.
I'm not suprised by a mortality rate of 25% in a Contraband camp... as I know of refugee camps in Europe w/ approx the same.
__________________
Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Letter written by Federal Chaplain and Surgeons, dated Dec 29th 1862, Helena, Arkansas:
General, The undersigned Chaplains and Surgeons of the army of the Eastern District of Arkansas would respectfully call your attention to the Statements and Suggestions following. The Contrabands within our lines are experiencing hardships oppression & neglect the removal of which calls loudly for the intervention of authority. We daily see & deplore the evil and leave it to your wisdom to devise a remedy. In a great degree the contrabands are left entirely to the mercy and rapacity of the unprincipled part of our army (excepting only the limited jurisdiction of Capt. Richmond) with no person clothed with specific authority to look after & protect them.
Among the list of grievances we mention these:
Some who have been paid by individuals for cotton or for labor have been waylaid by soldiers, robbed, and in several instances fired upon, as well as robbed, and in no case that we can now recall have the plunderers been brought to justice--
The wives of some have been molested by soldiers to gratify their licentious lust, and their husbands murdered in endeavering to defend them, and yet the guilty parties, though known, were not arrested. Some who have wives and families are required to work on the Fortifications, or to unload Government Stores, and receive only their meals at the Public table, while their families, whatever provision is intended for them, are, as a matter of fact, left in a helpless & starving condition.
Many of the contrabands have been employed, & received in numerous instances, from officers & privates, only counterfeit money or nothing at all for their services. One man was employed as a teamster by the Government & he died in the service (the government indebted to him nearly fifty dollars) leaving an orphan child eight years old, & there is no apparent provision made to draw the money, or to care for the orphaned child.
The negro hospital here has become notorious for filth, neglect, mortality & brutal whipping, so that the contrabands have lost all hope of kind treatment there, & would almost as soon go to their graves as to their hospital. These grievances reported to us by persons in whom we have confidence, & some of which we known to be true, are but a few of the many wrongs of which they complain---For the sake of humanity, for the sake of Christianity, for the good name of our army, for the honor of our country, cannot something be done to prevent this oppression & stop its demoralizing influences upon the Soldiers themselves?...
--Samuel Sawyer, Pearl P. Ingall, J.G. Forman
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"My cattle at home are better cared for than these unfortunate persons."
--Col. Frank S. Nickerson, U.S. Army (describing condition of southern blacks in the care of Federal Army)
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"Contrabandism at Fortress Monroe is but another name for one of the worst forms of practical oppression--government slavery. Old Pharaoh slavery was government slavery and Uncle Sam's slavery is a counterpart..."
"Masters who are owners or who have been brought up with their slaves [have an interest in them]; but what do government officers generally care how they treat these poor waifs, who have been cast upon their heartless protection..."
"But most of the slaves are compelled to work for government for a miserable pittance. Up to town months ago they had worked for nothing but quarters and rations. Since that time they have been partially supplied with clothing--costing on an average $4 per man. And in many instances they have received one or two dollars a month cash for the past two months..."
"Yet, under the direction of Quarter Master Tallmadge, Sergeant Smith has lately reduced the rations, given out, in Camp Hamilton, to the families of these laborers and to the disabled, from 500 to 60. And some of the men, not willing to see if their families suffer, have withdrawn from government service. And the Sergeant has been putting them in the Guard-house,
whipping and forcing them back into the government gang. In some instances these slaves have been knocked down senseless with shovels and clubs."
"But I have just begun to trace the long catalogue of enormities, committed in the name of the Union, freedom and justice under the Stars and Stripes.
“...One family of 40 plantation negroes came two months since, did very well for a time, several got work, but the change of life, weather, & being robbed by our soldiers of clothing & bedding till they were greatly exposed & became sick & 13 of them died, others must die, & when their master came to persuade them to return most of them did. They did not wish to go, faltered, changed their minds daily for a week, but as destitution, persecution & death stared them in the face the sad sufferers went back..."
Once again, Battalion, you've posted up things without adding your interpretation as to why they're there, leaving us to draw our own conclusions, as if it were obvious what you're trying to say.
With your latest post, then, I'll try to say what you seem to be saying, which is:
"Since there were some incidents of mistreatment of former slaves while travelling with the Federal army, then that conclusively shows that slavery, as an institution, should never have ended, being extended into perpetuity, because as I've clearly shown, the slaves were much better treated while in custody of their masters, and they would have been infinitely happier had they never been freed."
Is that your point? If not, then what is?
TW
__________________ "In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed. There is more involved in this contest than is realized by every one." Abraham Lincoln - August 18, 1864 Speech to the 164th Ohio Regiment
On Nov. 11, 1982, Grant appointed John Eaton, chaplain of the 27th Ohio Infantry Volunteers to take charge of the contrabands. This was the origin of the Freedman's Bureau - a response by Grant to make some order out of the chaos.
"He had been compelled, he said, to take this step from two considerations: first, that of military necessity ..., second, the dictates of mere humanity demanded that these helpless people should themselves protected, as far as possible, and spared all possible suffering. The need for action was urgent as winter was coming on ....."
- Grant, Lincoln and the Freedmen, by John Eaton
"As Eaton listened, he was persuaded of the merits of Grant's idea and the rational behind it. "Never before in those early and bewildering days had I heard the problem of the future of the Negro attacked so vigorously and with such humanity combined with practical good sense," he recalled."
- Ulysses S. Grant, by Brooks D. Simpson
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"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
C'mon, fellas. You've really got to admire Battalion's catalog of quotes and citations. I've never seen most of these, and find great interest in examining the circumstances behind them and the points being made by them.
We are, after all, learning something.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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