CivilWarTalk.com - A free and friendly Civil War community.
CivilWarTalk.com
The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk  

Go Back   The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk > The Backpack - Essential Discussions > Civil War History - General Discussion

Civil War History - General Discussion For Discussions on Civil War Era Personalities, Politics, Issues, Campaigns, Battles, and more. Serious Civil War Discussions Only Please! All other posts will be deleted.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 12-08-2005, 11:30 PM
unionblue's Avatar
Captain (5000+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 6,090
Default

To All,

To insure that an officer was taken care of (i.e. that he was fed, slept well and was not distracted by doing meaningless chores, etc.) does not mean he did not share the same risks as his men. A good officer leads from the front, not the rear.

But we need to be careful when we speak of officers in general. Good, front-line officers are the Lt.s, Captains, Majors and sometimes, the Colonels. Even then, I dealt mainly with Majors and below in my Headquarters company. When an officer marches with you, sleeps in a pup tent or on the ground with his men, he is usually a line officer.

I frankly, do not want a general in a foxhole with me, nor do I want him starved or hungry, if at all possible. As cruel as it seems, a general should be clear-headed and sharp in order to make the big calls. I am dead certain that the men in Lee's army understood if the 'old man' got to eat when they didn't. I'm sure they understood if he slept under a roof or tent when they slept out in the rain or cold.

You have to understand that taking care of your officers does not elevate them above the common soldier. They have a much tougher job than any trigger-puller. They have to decide who is sent out on the attack and who stays in reserve, who lives and who dies. And they have to live with the results of their commands. Making sure that they are clear-headed when they make these calls is more important than being upset at their percieved 'perks.'

Unionblue
__________________
"The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass

"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 12-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Calicoboy's Avatar
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 296
Default my point is

I seem to have started something with my remark about Hood. My real point is that a good general should see to the wellfare of his or her men. This is why I offer "Pap" Thomas as an example as to how a good general conducts himself. Thomas always made sure his men were well supplied and lived in reasonable comfort. He was sometimes accused of "moving slowly"; but his battle successes showed that he did right by his men. My beef is with generals who march their men to the point of exhaustion, starve them along the way and then throw them into battle with little regard to their condition. I agree that Hood was a mess. He was also totally smitten with "what's her name". Hood was over his head with large bodies of troops and his physical condition and his addiction to opiates made him unfit for duty. The mistake was Davis'. He should have never replaced Johnson with Hood. That act was a major reason that the South lost the initiative in Georgia and later in Tennessee.

Calicoboy
__________________
My dear mother:- I have come safely through two more terrible engagements with the enemy, that at South Mountain and the great battle of yesterday (Antietam). Our splendid regiment is almost destroyed. We have had nearly 400 men killed and wounded in the battles. Seven of our officers were shot and three killed in yesterday's battle and nearly 150 men killed and wounded. All from less than 300 engaged. The men have stood like iron....Maj. Rufus Dawes, 6th Wisconsin Volunteers
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 12-10-2005, 03:44 PM
Sergeant (500+ posts)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: NY
Posts: 521
Default

Unionblue,
I agree with Calicoboy on this. Take Longstreet as an example, he may have been slow at times, but did not launch needlessly bloody attacks such as Pickett's charge. instead he utilized the ground itself to great effect, ie his RR cut attack at Wilderness into Hancock's flank.
Respectfully,
Matt

Last edited by milhistbuff1; 12-10-2005 at 08:23 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 12-10-2005, 08:15 PM
Sergeant (500+ posts)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 572
Default

General Hood doesn't garner all his disdainment just for sleeping in a house and eating hot taters and ham while his men starved and froze outside in an icestorm. He garnishes most of his well deserved hate for wasting, murdering if you will, such a fine little army as was the Army of Tennessee by ordering them to attack an entrenched Union army bristling with artillery double-shotted with cannister. Hood also takes great grief, and well deserved grief for thinking these ill clad and vetern soldiers had somehow shown timidity and incapacity to follow orders at Spring Hill the day before Franklin, when the fault was purely Hood's. 5,000 plus dead, along with 6 dead general officers later, Hood could munch his taters, drink his Laudanum & whiskey whilst warming his bones by his fire and say the Army of Tennessee was indeed brave. Any person with common sense could have told Hood with 100% accuracy that the Army of Tennessee men would charge hell with a cornstalk. Any veteran Union private soldier who had defended against AOT men could have told Hood this very statement with total validity. But...you can't tell some people like J.B. Hood, anything, it seems!

Calicoboy, you didn't start anything but a great and most thought provocative reply to which I totally agree. While a high-ranking officer can't be 'one of the boys' and expect to order his men to a certain death next morning, the good generals seemed to go where ever their men would go. Gen. Cleburne comes as a good example. (I realize P.R.C. wasn't a commanding Gen. like Hood, Neil) And Gen. officers deserve a worry-free as possible environment. BTW, Calico, on another post I chose Pap Thomas as my personal favorite Union General. Again I congratulate you on a fine post and great comment, my "Iron Brigade" :-) friend! Here's a toast to your comment!!

Sincerely,
Alabaman
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 12-10-2005, 11:58 PM
samgrant's Avatar
Brig. General, Trivia Mod
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Land of Lincoln (and Grant)
Posts: 4,085
Default

Alabaman,

Your critique of Mr. Hood is quite stirring. Tho you neglected to mention the "sleepover" at Spring Hill.

I must agree that he let your boys down, unjustifiably.
__________________
-

"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt

Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf

Ancestors in CSA Army: 2nd TN Inf (Walker's), 9th TN Cav (Bennett's/Ward's); 2nd TX Inf
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 12-11-2005, 06:58 AM
Sergeant (500+ posts)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 572
Default

Sam,

Well, by all means, be my guest and writ'er down! (the "sleepover.") :-)

Alabaman
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 12-11-2005, 01:14 PM
Calicoboy's Avatar
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 296
Default bon mot

Alabaman,

"Charge hell with a cornstalk". I really like the metaphore. Tis true the AoT was a brave group of lads. I doff my Hardee hat and salute them. Huzzah!

Calicoboy
__________________
My dear mother:- I have come safely through two more terrible engagements with the enemy, that at South Mountain and the great battle of yesterday (Antietam). Our splendid regiment is almost destroyed. We have had nearly 400 men killed and wounded in the battles. Seven of our officers were shot and three killed in yesterday's battle and nearly 150 men killed and wounded. All from less than 300 engaged. The men have stood like iron....Maj. Rufus Dawes, 6th Wisconsin Volunteers
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 12-12-2005, 03:04 PM
Admiral_Porter's Avatar
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 381
Default

I wonder if there is any true historical basis for Hood's opium addiction or if it's just another one of those ACW myths that gets repeated so often that it's taken as fact like the Gettysburg shoe factory myth.

Can anyone point me in the right direction for evidence?

Does anyone else find it odd that Hood is said to be addicted to opium but other amputees like O.O. Howard and Baldy Ewell are not?
__________________
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 12-12-2005, 06:48 PM
ole's Avatar
ole ole is online now
Brig. General, Mod
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,058
Default

Admiral:

"Addiction" might be too strong a word, although I understand laudanam was highly addictive. The recency of his leg's amputation might indicate that he still used laudanam at least occasionally, e.g., to get some sleep. Howard's loss was quite some time past. I forget when Ewell's occurred.

It might also be that Hood's was more painful, longer, being so close to the torso. But I'm with you in being very suspicious of relegating Hood to junkie status. It could just be that he had some honestly acquired character and judgement flaws.
Ole
__________________
I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 12-12-2005, 07:04 PM
Calicoboy's Avatar
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ole
Admiral:

"Addiction" might be too strong a word, although I understand laudanam was highly addictive. The recency of his leg's amputation might indicate that he still used laudanam at least occasionally, e.g., to get some sleep. Howard's loss was quite some time past. I forget when Ewell's occurred.

It might also be that Hood's was more painful, longer, being so close to the torso. But I'm with you in being very suspicious of relegating Hood to junkie status. It could just be that he had some honestly acquired character and judgement flaws.
Ole
Ewell took a minnie ball in the leg compliments of those d**m black hats at the battle at Brawner's Farm. Some call it the Battle of Gainsville. Jackson poked a hornets' nest that day.

Calicoboy
__________________
My dear mother:- I have come safely through two more terrible engagements with the enemy, that at South Mountain and the great battle of yesterday (Antietam). Our splendid regiment is almost destroyed. We have had nearly 400 men killed and wounded in the battles. Seven of our officers were shot and three killed in yesterday's battle and nearly 150 men killed and wounded. All from less than 300 engaged. The men have stood like iron....Maj. Rufus Dawes, 6th Wisconsin Volunteers
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:26 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2009, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Back to top
Bringing the American Civil War to Life. Copyright © 1999 - 2008, CivilWarTalk.com. Site Version 4.3

The American Civil War | Forum | Resource Center | Image Gallery | Links | Site Map | XML | Donations