R. E. Lee's Rank

[gknight]

Newbie here, but I have spent nearly two hours on this board trying to find a discussion on this subject. It is probably here but I can't find it so I will go ahead and state the question.

R. E. Lee, a colonel in the Federal Army, resigned his commission to defend his native state, Virginia.

Virginia became part of the Confederacy and Lee's services were offered by Virginia to the new nation.

In the Confederacy, Lee was a general officer.

On only two occasions did he ever wear the rank of a general officer (the coat upon which the rank was placed is often called the "surrender coat"). At all other times he wore the three gold stars of a colonel.

I have been told by Lee researchers that it was simply part of his understated style, that there was never any question he was in charge so the rank was not necessary.

I have also been told that Lee never really accepted the legitimacy of the Confederacy and that he wore the rank that he had earned and which had been given to him a legitimate government.

Both explanations bear a tone of truth, seem to fit the man's style and given the social structure of the military at the time are altogether possible.

Opinions?

Thanks.
Glenn

[ole]

Glenn:

From memory, three gold stars in a wreath on the collar was a confederate general.

I note that you're into the navy. You'll be in good company. We've recently experienced an influx of members who are navy buffs as well.

Please introduce yourself in the Recruits Meet & Greet Area. You're more likely to shake them out of the bullrushes in that venue than this.

Hope you get your definitive information.

Ole

[JohnW in E.TN]

[quote=ole]

From memory, three gold stars in a wreath on the collar was a confederate general.

Ole,

You are correct, Sir. 1 star = Major, 2 stars = Lt. Col. , 3 stars = Colonel, 3 stars with wreath = General.

Regards,

John W.

[cash]

Originally Posted by gknight

In the Confederacy, Lee was a general officer.

On only two occasions did he ever wear the rank of a general officer (the coat upon which the rank was placed is often called the "surrender coat"). At all other times he wore the three gold stars of a colonel.

I have been told by Lee researchers that it was simply part of his understated style, that there was never any question he was in charge so the rank was not necessary.

I have also been told that Lee never really accepted the legitimacy of the Confederacy and that he wore the rank that he had earned and which had been given to him a legitimate government.

I go with the first response. It was part of his understated style, much like Grant's wearing a private's blouse. It seems to me that if he was wearing the rank he earned which had been given to him by a legitimate government rather than the rank of a government whose legitimacy he didn't accept he'd be wearing eagles on his shoulders rather than the three stars on his collar.

Regards,
Cash

[rivrrat]

However if you look at Lee's pictures you will see that his stars were not in a wreath,

[samgrant]

From the Museum of the Confederacy:

http://www.moc.org/xcolart.htm

Did You Know… Every wartime photograph of Robert E. Lee shows him wearing a uniform coat bearing three stars on his collar – the insignia denoting the rank of colonel in the Confederate Army. Why did Lee prefer the insignia of a Confederate colonel? Lee had finally attained the rank of colonel in the U.S. Army on the eve of the war and some have speculated that Lee wore the three stars as a gesture of Lee’s famous modesty. Another explanation is that three stars had been in the U.S. Army the appropriate insignia for a lieutenant general – a rank that only two men had held: Lee’s idol George Washington and his mentor Winfield Scott.


Just yesterday, Lee the Soldier by Gary Gallagher, arrived in the mail. I have not had time to start on it yet, but there are lots of photos and illustrations I have not seen in any other Lee books.

There is a photo of the uniform he wore in the field (with nice long, over the knee, boots). There is also a photo of him in Sept. 1866 on Traveller wearing the Conf. uniform with all insignia removed. (Those photos which I mention are just within the 1st 8 of over 30 illustrations.)

Even in his dress uniform photos, he wears the 3 stars, but without the wreaths.

[Robert B. Condon]

Unfortunately, the ultimate authority, Dr. Freeman, apparently never addressed this issue. At least I could not find anything skimming through the Index to R.E. Lee. The post did, however, strike a chord and after flipping through numerous volumes of The Virginia Magazine of History and Biography, the quarterly of the Virginia Historical Society, I found what I was looking for. In the April, 1990, issue (Volume 98, Number 2), their is an article entitled "The Fabric of Command: R.E. Lee, Confederate Insignia, and Perception of Rank." Since the volume is likely not readily available, I will try to summarize. The author is of the opinion that Lee's act of wearing colonel's insignia "as a vestige of simple humility seems improbable." The author concedes the possibility that the act was "a gesture toward the last rank he held in the service of the United States." Finally, the author puts forth the possibility that the act was "a manifestation of his ambition and self-perception" because of the fact that Lee knew that three stars was reserved for the rank of Lieutenant General in the United States Army, a rank which was bestowed only in special circumstances. Even more interesting, according to the author a lieutenant general's three stars were to be equal-sized but that there was another United States rank, "Major General Commanding the Army" which also authorized three stars, two between which was a larger third one. The latter arrangement is supposedly shown in a 1864 portrait of Lee. In summary, the author discusses the same possible explanations which have been put forth in the various postings. Which is correct? Personally, I lean toward the lieutenant general one but can anyone say that they know the real Lee?