The Benevolence of the Manifest Destiny

[johan_steele]

wEll said Mr Powers

[ole]

Originally Posted by bill_torrens

Ole,
If you think such discussions constitute the flogging of a dead horse the simplest solution would be for you to switch your attention to other boards.
Bill

The last simple thing I did was drink a malted milk about 50 years ago. (It cost $0.15.)

Some discussions reach a dead end. This is usually indicated by, "yes it was" and "no it wasn't," argument. At that point, the subject is (1) dead, (2) in dire need of some new arguments, or (3) in dire need of some new participants.

Now I'd prefer to have the legal/illegal argument proceed with new arguments. I haven't personally resolved the question and seem to be unable to come up with more than an unsupported opinion. But "yes it was, no it wasn't" is a dead horse. So launch a flank attack and look for a chink in the fortification.

I'd rather stick with this board as it has exhibited a breadth of scholarship and thought found in limted scope on others. I choose to drink from that pool and ignore dismissal as if I were a gnat bothering a dead horse. (How's that for mixing metaphors?) This horse is dead. Try another.
Ole

[bill_torrens]

Ole,

I choose to drink from that pool and ignore dismissal as if I were a gnat bothering a dead horse. (How's that for mixing metaphors?) This horse is dead. Try another.

Nobody is trying to dismiss you. You’re entirely welcome to stay as long as you like. But you’re just going to have to accept that some of us believe the horse to be very much alive and in good health. No matter how often you ask for this thread to go away, it isn’t going to.

Even if it bugs you.

For example, I am intrigued by the notion that maltreatment of the Native American can be viewed as just an unfortunate mistake which nobody should get hung up about. Surely one could say the same thing about Negro slavery? Just one of those things that happen. No use crying over spilt milk. The horse is dead. Let’s move on.

The defence of Manifest Destiny and related crimes by the same people who preach endlessly about the evils of slavery seems to rest on a simple premise. That the plight of the Negro is inherently more important than that of the Native American. As a matter of strict logic I’m not sure I’m persuaded by this.

Bill

[Alabaman]

Bill:

In reference to your statement: "That the plight of the Negro is inherently more important than that of the Native American. As a matter of strict logic I'm not sure I'm persuaded by this."

I'm TOTALLY sure that I am NOT persuaded by this logic. Its a fact in modern America that any refusal to protect Negro interests or rights, no matter how rediculous, violates the sanctity of Democracy. The rights of Native Americans however are grossly overlooked. Native Americans attempting to become enterprising contributors of society such as purchasing a small tract of land and establishing a lawfull, lucrative Gambling ****** are fought by City Hall tooth & nail. Native American's attempting to preserve a portion of their culture as per their various languages were strictly forbidden to do so. Not so with Negro culture. Northern logic desires to sweep this under the proverbial rug.

Giddyup old (dead) horse, there is PLENTY of life in you yet. Lets ride!! ;-) Rob Adams (Alabaman)

[bill_torrens]

Rob,

It sounds like you're riding a similarly deceased dobbin. Welcome into the saddle!

Bill

[Alabaman]

Bill:
Yes. Quite, indeed. "Robin rides the dead dobbin."
Thank you kindly for the welcome and note my sincere compliments to your "reviving the dobbin."
I'm sure some of our Northern friends are currently reviewing the Constitution to point-out the wickedness of my Southern ways and to make my "saddle" a very worn-out and uncomfortable platorm. ;-)
Yours Sincerely, Rob Adams (Aabaman)

[johan_steele]

Sorry gents I'm not certain how the treatment of the Native American is a "northern thing," plenty of blame to go around. As there were Native Americans in every part of the US before the arrival of the white man and the South was a large chunk... who pushed them out? Are you suggesting that some evil northerner went down into NC or Florida to push out the various Indians and that the Southern gentry who wanted that land for plantations etc were pure as the driven snow? Or are you just conveniently ignoring that the South did their share of evil deeds? Oh by the way... as I've stated ample times before the Native American was NOT treated well, neither was the negro and there is plenty of blame to go around. It's all the fault of the north is a dog that just don't hunt.

Lumping the treatment of the South (before, after or during the ACW) w/ that of the Native American is ignorance at its finest. Find me the examples of a whole cultures extermination. In short was it ever illegal for anyone in the South to speak their Native toungue, to hold religious ceremonies, to wear their native garb or to bury their ancestors as they had for millenia? Were there ever signs that said "No dogs or Indians allowed"... you may have me on that note. "Whites Only" signs were quite prevelant for better than a century.

I'm totally sure there has been very little actual scholarship on this thread for quite some time, just finger pointing, innuendo and veiled insults. If that isn't a dead horse why don't you step up to the plate and add some water to the equation and see if it will drink.

Can't point the finger w/out pointing three fingers back at yourself.

[dawna]

Rob:

When one chooses to take a reckless ride on 'the deceased dobbin,' it's best to have a strip of velcro on the seat, a wieldy stash of smelling salts, and a hefty saddle bag to trammel the Dead Sea Scrolls.

Dawna

[bill_torrens]

Are the last two paragraphs of post 157 an appropriate contribution from a moderator? Time for a resignation, I would suggest.

[Alabaman]

Dawna:
Yes, you are right. A velcro strip across the saddle would be most bneficial! Thanks for the warning. I'm afraid the heads-up on my 'reckless gallop' was pre-empted by the voice of a 'stern abolishionist.' (kidding, Johan)
Related but OT: My old bay gelding, 15 hands high and a gaited American Saddlebreed, God bless his soul, died July 22, 1999 at the incredible age of 40 years. His name was Traveler. Known to many as "hard to ride, " I had no complaint.

Johan:

'Ignorance' is a might harsh, would'nt you think? Possessing a difference of opinion better suits the nature of this topic. I've read some eloquent and well written stances posted on this thread per both sides, personally. Perhaps you need to read all the threads.

Ishi, of the Yahi tribe, from Northern Calififornia was the last of his people. Read of his peoples' exploitation and of his immediate kins demise. California was loyal to the Northern cause, was it not? I'd say this is one example of a "wiped out" Native American culture.

I hear plenty of Negro people speaking their native tongue. Or thats what they tell me? Ebonics is what my black friends term it. A mixture of the King's English and the African language.

Communication between Negroes pre-WBTS was carried forth through song and story. Ole Brer Rabbit & Tar Baby come to mind. Also, singing in the cotton fields was a form of Negro communcation, never halted by overseers/masters.

"Evil" Northern men didn't "go down South" in person, they (lazily) stirred the flames of hatred to all Southerners through propaganda from the convenience of their printing presses. Johan, you (yourself) have stated on this board how much you detest the Media. The (same) exact thing happened with the Northern press and its propaganda toward ALL the South. Slaveholders or not (in the case of my ancestors, not) were indiscriminitely attacked. These acts of Northern propaganda, recruited more dedicated Southern Infantry than ANY State or Richmond proclamation ever did.


Well...here is a little water set sincerely at 'the' table, as requested. Enjoy the drink.

Rob Adams, (Alabaman)