West Virginia

[8thvacav]

Thats so funny! I knew that was coming. You can read some on here like a book even when the info comes from the north.
Martin

[cash]

Originally Posted by 8thvacav

Thats so funny! I knew that was coming. You can read some on here like a book even when the info comes from the north.
Martin

------------------
Where it came from is irrelevant. It's filled with strawmen and misinformation. It's nothing more than a propaganda piece, and not that well done.

Regards,
Cash

[sgtcsa]

Thea,
Good post. I believe our Northern Breathern will jump on this as nothing but pure 'balderdash'! But, as for me, I believe there is more than just an element of truth intertwined with this. This is my first post since my daughter got married, and I feel as if I'm somewhat rusty in even discussing anything about the war. For the last few days, all I've done is, sort of just watch and read, and kind of lay back in the weeds, while y'all stick it to one another, which, by the way, I found very interesting. I hope to slowly begin to find my nitch again, hopefully, sometime soon. Keep up the good work, girl! You're a Southerner too, and so, I know that you're not always right, but by gosh, you ain't never wrong!

Respectfully
SgtCSA

[aggie80]

All right, as an attorney, I've just tried to read all the rather circular arguments going back an forth here, but have finally decided to skip it all.

There are a couple of points to put forward:

1. This splitting of the state into two parts was not a new idea born of the Civil War. As early as 1801 the western counties began attempting to split off from the east, Their dislike of being ruled by a majority that had no idea how the "other third lived" in the mountains was a factor in the results of the election. Take away the whole aspect of secession and the vote in the western counties probably would have been even more overwhelmingly for creation of a new state.

2. The recognition by Virginia of West Virginia as a seperate entity in their court case regarding the inclusion of certain counties defeats any further claims. Done deal.

3. The apportionment of the debt really seals that concept.

As to whether the actual formation was 'legal' at the time is interesting, but a moot point, fun to debate and argue, but to which there is no right or wrong answer.

[ole]

Wow! Dang! Aggie.

Your post is most appreciated -- probably because it hits a mark.

It says a great deal, and I promise to make no jokes about buses full of lawyers or sinking boats or Rabbis, Priests, and Laywers.

Please, continue to post. You have my attention.
Ole

[samgrant]

Just stumbled across this. Posting hare as well as any,I guess:

Mrs. Sarah Landis Maher of Wilmette, heroine of the civil war, died yesterday at the age of 73. She was the daughter of Abraham Landis of Lancaster County, Pennsylvania, the first prominent member of the famous Landis family of that state. Her husband, who died last December at Wilmette, at the age of 87, was a construction chemist, and erected the first sulphuric acid plant in the United States in Philadelphia in 1842. He also erected plants in California and Chicago in the early '50s.

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[Mr. and Mrs. Maher helped to make history at the time of the civil war, for their efforts saved kanawha county, West Virginia, to the Union. They were living at the time at Mill Creek, where Mr. Maher had charge of coal oil works. The sentiment was running strongly to the side of the secessionists when Mrs. Maher urged that, as there was not a Union flag in the district, her husband ride to Charleston, ten miles away, and procure silk materials so that she could manufacture one. The question of secession from the Union or from the eastern part of the state was to be voted on two days after Mrs. Maher received her silk, and she was compelled to work all day Sunday and all Sunday night to get the flag finished in time. The next morning, when the men of the district went to the polling place, they found floating above it a beautiful banner, Mr. Maher on a block ready to address them, and his wife by his side pointing to the flag as its folds flapped from the staff. Mr. Maher made an impassioned speech, and with the tears streaming down his cheeks, begged his neighbors to remain true to the Union. The appeal was not made in vain, and a large majority was given against secession. Mrs. Maher the took the flag and, aided by a large body of men, planted it on a hill overlooking the whole vally, where it stayed until it fell into tatters. Mrs. Maher was for many years a leading member of the Presbyterian Church in this city

[OpnDownfall]

Did not Sen. Thaddeus Stevens of Pa. argue that although Lincoln was correct in asserting that unilaterl secession by individual states was not Constitutional, he also went on to assert that the 'effect' of the southern states 'trying' to secede had destroyed the states; that although the states no longer existed (because of thier illegal attempt to leave the Union) they had, in fact, reverted to being territories of the USA, at the mercy of Constitutional Rules governing the acquisition and disposition of Federal Territories.
Va. was fortunate that Lincoln's interpretation won out or the state could have lost a lot more than just W. Va. Not to mention what other southern states would have lost.

[whitworth]

Of the modern internet opinions I've read, there seems to be, very few law school graduates, that understand Lincoln.

Too many opinions are tied to some idea that the Confederacy was right, that secession was legal, and that certain counties of Virginia had no right to remain in the Union. The results proved such thought was wrong.

I believe the problem arises, because too many, attempt to study the legality out of their own whole cloth. As if they were working on the legality of the issue in 1863. For me the best way is to work backwards from end to beginning. West Virginia exists. Counties in West Virginia had the right to remain in the Union. As the loyal counties in the Union, West Virginia became that part of Virginia still loyal to the U.S. Constitution.

West Virginia's establishment was also punishment. It coldly treated Virginia's secession as severe insurrection. Economically and politically, the U.S. made sure that Virginia would be a smaller state after the Civil War; that it would have fewer seats in the House of Representatives, as opposed to staying a previously whole state; it would lose its economic tax base and the B&O Railroad would never again run through the Commonwealth of Virginia. That the Ohio river would never run on Virginia's border. That the Kanawha valley would never again be part of Virginia.

It was the price Virginia paid for secession and insurrection.

War is severe. Virginia thought it could win, both legally and militarily. Virginia lost on both counts.

A Civil War has its price and Virginia paid that price.

[cash]

Bumped to the top.

Regards,
Cash

[larry_cockerham]

Whitworth, in his youth, was a bit confused. West Virginia took little away from Virginia except coal mines, and those were linked to this day quite handily by the Norfolk and Western Railroad. The Kannawha valley to this day, last time I looked, is still linked to the New River Valley in territory that greatly resembles and is claimed by Virginia. Even my beloved New River in North Carolina, both forks, run into and through Virginia, supplying the Kannawha with it's greatest resource, water. Virginia Department of Transportation saluted the absence of West Virginia on more than one occasion. A man could not with ease, walk nor ride a mule from much of West Virginia to Richmond. Better to have their own capital. Folks in Tennessee will tell you much the same thing with respect to Raleigh.