CivilWarTalk.com - A free and friendly Civil War community.
CivilWarTalk.com
The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk  

Go Back   The Dispatch Depot at Civil War Talk > The Backpack - Essential Discussions > Civil War History - General Discussion

Civil War History - General Discussion For Discussions on Civil War Era Personalities, Politics, Issues, Campaigns, Battles, and more. Serious Civil War Discussions Only Please! All other posts will be deleted.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 07-06-2005, 12:13 PM
Sergeant Major (1750+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawglips
You will note that there was nothing in there regarding slavery that the US government had not established by law, judicial ruling or amendment. (See the thread Unionblue mentions above.)
----------------
No, this is not accurate. Article IV, Section 3, Clause 3, for example, states, "The Confederate States may acquire new territory; and Congress shall have power to legislate and provide governments for the inhabitants of all territory belonging to the Confederate States, lying without the limits of the several Sates; and may permit them, at such times, and in such manner as it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be recognized and protected be Congress and by the Territorial government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate States and Territories shall have the right to take to such Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States or Territories of the Confederate States."

As the Northwest Ordinance clearly shows, the United States allowed Congress to restrict slavery from territories. The confederate constitution mandated slavery in territories.

The basic difference is that the United States Constitution tolerated the existence of slavery. The confederate constitution required the existence of slavery.

Regards,
Cash
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 07-06-2005, 04:46 PM
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 298
Default

Cash -

"The basic difference is that the United States Constitution tolerated the existence of slavery. The confederate constitution required the existence of slavery." I think you're basically correct, but the optimist in me requires that I quibble. The Confederate constitution does not "require" slavery; it requires only that the opportunity to own slaves be afforded. I do believe that the morality of slavery was evolving in the mid nineteenth century, faster in the north because their socio-economics weren't tied to slavery. The optimist in me says that the south would have eventually come around on this as well. It would have taken more time, and perhaps more agricultural mechanization.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 07-06-2005, 05:21 PM
Sergeant Major (1750+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,395
Default

"The basic difference is that the United States Constitution tolerated the existence of slavery. The confederate constitution required the existence of slavery." I think you're basically correct, but the optimist in me requires that I quibble. The Confederate constitution does not "require" slavery; it requires only that the opportunity to own slaves be afforded.
-----------------------
It requires the legality of slavery in the territories, and it requires that each state recognize the legality of anyone owning slaves traveling through their jurisdiction, something else the US Constitution didn't require. Right of sojourn was a state matter, and if a state did not recognize a right of sojourn then it did not exist within that state. The confederate constitution requires it throughout the confederacy.



I do believe that the morality of slavery was evolving in the mid nineteenth century, faster in the north because their socio-economics weren't tied to slavery.
------------------------
Actually, if you study the history of the US from the Revolution to the Civil War, you see that the southern states went from regarding slavery as a necessary evil around the time of the Revolution and shortly thereafter to regarding it as being a positive good around 1830. So they were in fact regressing. In the North, there was a much weaker tie to slavery due to the fact that they didn't as many large planter operations as existed in the south, but also the Spirit of the Revolution infused the movement for abolition of slavery. After the Revolution state after state either abolished slavery outright or passed laws providing for gradual emancipation of slaves, ending at Delaware [Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri being southern states], which was the only Northern state that did not abolish slavery.


The optimist in me says that the south would have eventually come around on this as well. It would have taken more time, and perhaps more agricultural mechanization.
----------------------
You're talking at least the mid-Twentieth Century before mechanization of cotton growing was developed enough to begin to reduce the labor demand on cotton plantations. The southern attachment to slavery was entrenched, and there's no evidence that it would ever have given way.

Regards,
Cash
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 07-06-2005, 09:20 PM
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 298
Default

Cash -

"The southern attachment to slavery was entrenched, and there's no evidence that it would ever have given way." When or what do you think would have ended slavery in the south?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 07-06-2005, 10:32 PM
unionblue's Avatar
Captain (5000+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Columbus, Ohio
Posts: 5,537
Default

Hal,

Who insisted on the 3/5's rule? What was the reason that the word 'slavery' or 'slave' was NOT mentioned in the US Constitution? What region of the country was intent on institutionalizing slavery into the system of government?

As for the rest of your suggestions, I have been down that road with you before and have not changed my mind since.

Enjoy your search, Pvt. Guass.

Unionblue
__________________
"The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass

"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 07-06-2005, 11:24 PM
Sergeant Major (1750+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_aukerman
Cash -

"The southern attachment to slavery was entrenched, and there's no evidence that it would ever have given way." When or what do you think would have ended slavery in the south?
--------
A war or some other event that put it outside their control. As long as they had control they would never give it up.

Regards,
Cash
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 07-07-2005, 02:23 PM
Corporal (250+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 298
Default

Cash -

Is it your opinion that, absent a war or other event putting slavery outside of the south's control, slavery would still exist?
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 07-07-2005, 03:06 PM
Sergeant Major (1750+ posts)
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 2,395
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by russ_aukerman
Cash -

Is it your opinion that, absent a war or other event putting slavery outside of the south's control, slavery would still exist?
-------------------
Yes.

Regards,
Cash
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are On


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0
Back to top
Bringing the American Civil War to Life. Copyright © 1999 - 2008, CivilWarTalk.com. Site Version 4.3
The American Civil War | Forum | Resource Center | Image Gallery | Links | Site Map | XML | Donations