Civil War History - General DiscussionFor Discussions on Civil War Era Personalities, Politics, Issues, Campaigns, Battles, and more. Serious Civil War Discussions Only Please! All other posts will be deleted.
This is a new one for me as I have been pretty content to sit back and wait for Oldreb to put forth his ideas on secession, etc. and then try to slap them down.
I know it has entertained and amused most of you and may have caused some distress with a few of you on this board.
But now I put a serious question to all who find sympathy with the cause of the South during the War of the Rebellion. Why?
Why such passion and such a fervent belief in that the cause of the South was somehow right? Why do you think secession was proper and just? Especially when it was so long ago and is so remote from your present day life. And why do you have such deep passions about the subject?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
For the record, nothing my friend Oldreb has said has ever distressed me - Ron, you've got just the right blend of sincerity with a good sense of humor (this last indispensible)...and that's the last compliment I'm paying you today!
(gotta run, sorry I don't have more time for your actual question Neil..)
Jim
I May have already bored you to death with this little tome but It fits in with the question asked so here goes. If you want a flavor of why the Confederate soldier fought and why southerners today admire them read a book called Confederates in the Attic by Tony Horowitz. It is a terrific book about a hard core re-enactor and some of the antics they go through visiting places of all kinds in the south.
In the book, the author notes that 2% of all Northerners had ancestors who fought in the war while, 6% of southerners had relatives who fought in the war. That's where it starts but it by no means ends there.
I lived in Virginia for 7 years or so. I loved the history, the people the state. My wife had to drag me kicking and screaming from there to New York. While in college there, I researched a paper which required interviewing people about the Civil War. One man's father had fought in the 11th Virginia. Another man had an Aunt whose mother was Jeb Stuart's nanny/maid. These people are still very close to the war. Not just generationally but physically as well.
Remember the south was laid prostrate at the end of the war. No other section of the country went through what southerner's did. Hell, would you forget what happened?
I had a distant relative from North Carolina, a dirt farmer from Mecklinburg, join the Confederate Army. He died at the age of 23 at Gettysburg. I admire him a great deal. He gave his life for his country. I am not interested in politics or why he did it except to say that I honor his memory for fighting for a cause that he believed in. No letters survive so I can't tell you why he fought. He had one horse and no slaves. that much I do know. And he died at Gettysburg. He died at the place where every southern boy dreamed about decades ago.
He fought against all odds and he was unlucky as well. You see, the one horse he had was shot out from under him when he was in the 1st NC Cavalry. He could not afford another horse, so he was transferred to the infantry (37th NC) and 30 days later was KIA. Who knows what my family missed out on because of his untimely death.
Below is General Stephen D. Lee's charge to the Sons of confederate Veteran' in 1896.
"To you, Sons of Confederate Veterans, we submit the vindication of the Cause for which we fought; to your strength will be given the defense of the Confederate soldier's good name, the guardianship of his history, the emulation of his virtues, the perpetuation of those principles he loved and which made him glorious and which you also cherish. Remember, it is your duty to see that the true history of the South is presented to future generations."
Great, great post Bill. I'm came online tonight to follow up on Neil's question, and was going to mention Horwitz's book as well, but the rest of my words would have fallen far short of the eloquence of what you just wrote.
I asked my mother once when I was a child if being a soldier and having to kill people in war was considered "killing." My mother said that soldiering is not the same as the biblical sin of killing and that there was a special heaven for soldiers. (Now you CWTalk warriors will be glad of that!)
Anyway, I agree with Shelby Foote who said that the Civil War defined us and showed us who we are. I am still pondering that one.
As a Red Sox Fan I understand the psychology behind this.
Seriously, when you have a group of people, and henceforth their ancestors, who fought for a cause and a way of life and despite their best efforts lost. (Waiting for a response to that) The passions about this would and no doubt should run high.
One of my friends that I work with is from Minnesota. I was born and raised in the deep south. I have lived most of my life here and would not willingly go anywhere else. This friend who is from Minnesota was discussing his daughter's history class and was somewhat shocked at the amount of time spent studying this period. He seemed puzzled by the emphasis the school placed on this period of history. He knew I was a keen student of history but was suprised to learn that most of the people in our group who were from the south were intimately aquainted with this period of history as well.
The south saw a social upheaval as a result of the war that never touched the north. Every soldier and soldier's family in the north was of course affected but in the south EVERYONE was affected. The whole social structure of the south was turned upside down in a mannner that still has ramifications today. People who had land, money, and property in the south previous to the war lost it as a result. The economic system that the south was built upon was destroyed in one decade. As is often the case in economic disasters, the lowest levels of society bore the brunt of the collapse. While the plantation owners and large planters suffered and lost their fortunes, the small farmers lost everything. There was no segment of the south that was not affected intimately by the war and reconstruction.
Bill points out that 6% of the people in the south have relatives that fought in the war. I would also point out that 100% of the people in the south in 1865 suffered as a result of the war.
There was a term when I was growing up to describe the political fallout from the Civil War that still is in evidence in the south. A "yellow-dog democrat" is how many people described their political persuasion. A "yellow-dog democrat" would vote for a yellow dog providing he was a Democrat and was running against a Republican.
The governor's race in Alabama was in point of fact the Democratic primary. The Republican's always ran a candidate but it was only a formality until the 1970's.
To take this one step further, imagine how this discontent is magnified when someone is intimately aquainted with the thoughts of a relative who fought and died on the Confederate side through letters or a journal. If great-grandfather bravely gave his life for a cause it simply must have been just.
I think these are the basic reasons for the passion and almost religious reverance for Confederate symbols. I know that the war is much closer to southerners in general because of the economic afteraffects that are still in evidence in the south today.
Rick,
Slightly off subject, do you think that young Woodrow Wilson growing up in the reconstructed south may have had his opinions of war colored by what he saw as a young man; consequently, transferring a distaste of war to the situation in Europe delaying our entry into WW1?
Having grown up in the North, I can say that so much is taken for granted. If any word I know could be applied to the North, even today, it is "careless." We have grown so competitive as a culture, and losing is bad and having little money is bad. Few people understand the pleasure of "porch sittin'" with your neighbor, or just "sittin'."
Recently, back for a visit to the rural community in which I grew up, I sat out in the front yard, which looks out on a vista of cornfields, of the house of the old church superintendent, now 90 years old, and we just "sat."
I don't remember much of what we talked about, which was probably not real important. When I thought to look at my watch, because I was supposed to be at my mother's house for lunch, it was 5:00 p.m.!
Anyway, I believe that some of us miss simpler living and working at home. The South stayed rural for a long time after the War, so even us rural northerners have similar yearnings. The North's mad industrialization and now post-industrialization have left many of us wondering how we can retrieve that lost quality of life.
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
