Civil War History - General DiscussionFor Discussions on Civil War Era Personalities, Politics, Issues, Campaigns, Battles, and more. Serious Civil War Discussions Only Please! All other posts will be deleted.
As for regulations and laws, take a look around for this:
=====
AN ACT for the establishment and organization of the Army of the Confederate States of America.
The Congress of the Confederate States of America do enact, That from and after the passage of this act the military establishment of the Confederate States shall be composed of one corps of engineers, one corps of artillery, six regiments of infantry, one regiment of cavalry, and of the staff departments already established by law.
...
SEC. 29. The Rules and Articles of War established by the laws of the United States of America for the government of the Army are hereby declared to be of force, except that wherever the words" United States" occur the words "Confederate States" shall be substituted therefor; and except that the Articles of War Nos. 61 and 62 are hereby abrogated and the following articles substituted therefor:
ART. 61. Officers having brevets or commissions of a prior date to those of the corps in which they serve will take place on courts-martial or of inquiry, and on boards detailed for military purposes, when composed of different corps, according to the ranks given them in their brevet or former commissions; but in the regiment, corps, or company to which such officers belong they shall do duty and take rank, both in courts and on boards as aforesaid which shall be composed of their own corps, according to the commissions by which they are there mustered.
ART. 62. If upon marches, guards, or in quarters different corps shall happen to join or do duty together, the officer highest in rank, according to the commission by which he is mustered in the Army, Navy, Marine Corps, or militia, there on duty by orders from competent authority, shall command the whole and give orders for what is needful for the service, unless otherwise directed by the President of the Confederate States in orders of special assignment providing for the case.
...
Approved March 6, 1861
=====
Please note that this is a LAW passed by the Confederate Congress and signed by President Davis.
Please note also that the "Rules and Articles of War established by the laws of the United States of America for the government of the Army" they are referring to were also authorized by LAWS passed by the United States Congress. That is how these things are routinely done.
If you think that the Articles of War do not have the full force of Law, why don't you try joining the military and violating them. I'd also suggest something where the punishment is small, because if you pick a biggie they will imprison you, and if you pick a real biggie, it is even possible they will execute you. They can do that because they have the force of law, not because they are just a "regulation".
Now try being serious. Look hard at the weaknesses in all the evasions and nit-picks you keep posting, and realize that you are simply hiding from facts you don't like.
Tim
Incorrect.
The Rules and Articles of War are not army regulations.
They are published with the regulations but it is a separate part.
*
The Rules and Articles of War have the heading:
"The Congress of the Confederate States of America do enact..."
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
The Rules and Articles of War are not army regulations.
They are published with the regulations but it is a separate part.
*
The Rules and Articles of War have the heading:
"The Congress of the Confederate States of America do enact..."
...the Regulations for the Army (part) does not.
*
In the Rules and Articles of War there is nothing about race.
And you will find that the regulations are enforced with the force of law because the Congress authorized the Army to enforce them.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
And you will find that the regulations are enforced with the force of law because the Congress authorized the Army to enforce them.
Tim
No.
But if they were...then the Confederate Congress passed conflicting laws-
They authorized by law the enlistment of American Indians.
The regulations say those enlisted have to be white.
But the fact remains...the regulations were never law.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
So Battalion, like the Cherokee & Creek who served the CS in seperate Regiments and Companies are you saying that Black CS soldiers would have been in seperate units? If so please identify them for us.
Also please repost your original estimation of the number of black men who served under arms in the CS Army. IIRC you gave a number of 5000 originally.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
were these men there willingly? Did they march off to war in patriotic fervor for the country which held their brethren in bondage?
This is a view of the war popularized in the North.
But did they-
Levi Oxendine, 25th Tennessee Infantry, volunteer/free black/age-53 Benjamin Watson, 25th Tennessee Infantry, volunteer/free black/age-55
-see it that way.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
But if they were...then the Confederate Congress passed conflicting laws-
They authorized by law the enlistment of American Indians.
The regulations say those enlisted have to be white.
But the fact remains...the regulations were never law.
No, that is just you trying to muddy the waters.
The Confederate Army was restricted to "white males" by Confederate law, passed by the Confederate Congress.
Exceptions to allow colored people to serve as musicians and cooks were created by Confederate law, passed by the Confederate Congress.
You tell us that exceptions to allow the enlistment of American Indians authorized by Confederate law, passed by the Confederate Congress.
That is all perfectly consistent (at least for politicians). But you like to hide from what the Confederacy actually did, so you'll never admit it.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
This is a view of the war popularized in the North.
But did they-
Levi Oxendine, 25th Tennessee Infantry, volunteer/free black/age-53 Benjamin Watson, 25th Tennessee Infantry, volunteer/free black/age-55
-see it that way.
Notice the word in there, Battalion....free. These obviously aren't slaves, either born free or manumitted. And as I and others have stated, nobody is denying that there were some blacks that slipped through the cracks of the rules as put down, saying that there weren't to be any blacks accepted. But these men don't have a master, they are there of their own volition. Don't know why, but they are.
Btw, what is their occupation in said regiment? Are they actual troops, or once again, is this an example of a teamster, cook or musician?
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
Notice the word in there, Battalion....free. These obviously aren't slaves, either born free or manumitted. And as I and others have stated, nobody is denying that there were some blacks that slipped through the cracks of the rules as put down, saying that there weren't to be any blacks accepted. But these men don't have a master, they are there of their own volition. Don't know why, but they are.
Btw, what is their occupation in said regiment? Are they actual troops, or once again, is this an example of a teamster, cook or musician?
Both enlisted as Private...
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
I was just perusing the internet, and on a hunch, I typed in levi oxendine into google, and came up with a couple of sites of somebody doing geneaology on the oxendine familly. Turns out he is what appears to be a member of the Lumbee Indian tribe. The Lumbee's, from research seem to be an oddity, being a mix of Europeans, African-American and Indians. Legend has it that some members of the tribe are descendants to the Lost Colonists of Roanoake. Soooooo, I wouldn't necessarily consider him a free black man. Just a thought.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
