Sherman's march

Neil,
lol that too.
YMOS
tommy

[unionblue]

Tommy,

I have never caught on to this 'shorthand' people use. What does lol mean?

Unionblue

LOL = laugh out loud.
LMAO = laughing my a** off
ROTFLMAO = rolling on the floor laughing my a** off

Just varying degrees of laughter

Also you have these common ones

IIRC = if i remember correctly

brb = be right back
brbigtgp - be right back i got to go pee

IMHO = in my humble opinion. (I do not think such a thing exist as a humble opinion lol)

There are a gazillion of them but only a few get common usage.

YMOS
tommy

[unionblue]

Tommy,

Thanks for the update on the email/computer 'shorthand.' I feel somewhat of a dinosaur dragging my tail around at times in this day and age.

I have always been somewhat surprised at those who feel the South got short changed somehow in their defeat. I am more comfortable with the attitude of the American Colonies during the Revolution. They too, put their money down, their lives, their fortunes, their honor. And they were lucky enough to win. But they knew they would hang or suffer to some degree if they lost.

Is it because the South thought they could wave the fantasy of secession in the face of reality that they felt so put upon by the horrors of war? That war somehow could still be fought with tight rules and out-of-bound areas, like some fantastic game?

It was best not to have started it at all, but the South did go to war with what it had, with a belief it could force a majority to bend to its will. By fair means or foul, they lost and had to endure that defeat, no matter how pleasant or uncomfortable or how horrible.

It is what happened after all, no matter how much we debate or argue. Was it right, what Sherman did on his march to the sea? Did it shorten the war?

I compare Sherman's march to the US dropping the A-bomb on Japan. A horrible moment that in the end, shortened the war, saved lives, both American and Japanese. It wasn't pretty, but it did what it did and there isn't hardly any WWII vet who won't tell you it shortened the war and saved his life.

IMHO, of course.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

[johan_steele]

Aphillbilly, ummm how many died on the Trail of Tears and as a result of that relocation? You really have to appreciate the wonderful deal the Cherokee got for their land... they sure thought so. So did every white man who moved onto their land... I don't think too many were Northerners. Every bit as much a case of Genocide as the actions against other tribes... Maybe if they had fought themselves to extinction you would call that genocide as well. Yes Stand Watie and others fought for the CSA... IN FACT THEY FOUGHT LONGER THAN ANYBODY ELSE! Did they ever receive appreciation due them by the rest of the CSA? Most were NEVER paid, all I can figure is that they hoped if the CSA won maybe they might get some land back.

Were the Indians treated fairly? No. Was it all the fault of the United States? Why not, the hate America crowd & Lost Causers blame everything else on US and loves to paint the picture of how evil Americans are.

These quotes are all quite appropriate, in fact they're timeless. The South made their bed, and shouldn't whine about being made to sleep in it.

-The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. Thomas Jefferson

-Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of new bureacracy. Franz Kafka

-The ballot is stronger than the bullet. A. Lincoln

-The only way to win a war is to use dishonorable methods to shorten the conflict and thus to save lives. Honor alone saves nothing but pride. Aleksandr Narkidova

-A revolution is an opinion backed by bayonets. Napoleon

-Your name and your deeds were forgotten before your bones were dry. And the lie that flew you is buried under a deeper lie… George Orwell

-When the people contend for their liberty they seldom get anything by their victory but new masters. George Saville

-Revolutions have never lightened the burden of tyranny; they have only shifted it to another shoulder. George Bernard Shaw

-Those who can make us believe absurdities can make us commit atrocities. Voltaire

-God grants liberty only to those who love it, and are ready to guard and defend it. Daniel Webster

-War is cruel, and you cannot refine it. &
-There is many a boy here today who looks on war as all glory, but boys, it is all hell. W.T. Sherman

The common soldier didn't start the Civil War, Politico's & rich hotheads did... the Soldier finished it and underwent the fatigue of supporting it to the end.

Sherman shortened the War by taking three of the most important cities in the CSA, wrecking any hope of success or recognition of a foreign power and being instrumental in getting Old Abe re-elected... I just don't see the premise that Sherman had nothing to do w/ winning the War? It's just the Lost Cause's hate of having lost & a refusal to give Sherman or the North credit for anything.

Politicians & vocal "civic leaders" are quite quick to send others off to suffer & die. It was nothing new in 1860... or 2003.

[unionblue]

"Our men must prevail in combat, or lose their property, country, freedom, everything..."

Confederate War Department clerk John Jones, 1863.

Seems like the man knew what the stakes were, way before Sherman's march.

Unionblue

[johan_steele]

John Jones was referring to Chattanooga & Bragg's incompetence before the city. You're right WELL before Shermans March to the Sea.

[thea_447]

Oates quotes Sherman as saying "I also told the army not to take any ****** refugees. Grant had urged me to 'clean the country of Negroes', but I wasn’t going to do that: would just slow us down. Only ******s I wanted were able bodied men to work as army laborers" (1998, p. 590).
http://www.killer-essays.com/History...s/hmd342.shtml

[unionblue]

Thea,

You did read the following comments by the writer of the article where Sherman said, time and time again, for the slaves to go home and not follow his army, that he even told black ministers the same thing and told them to tell the slaves following his army. The slaves simply ignored his orders.

Unionblue

[thea_447]

General Sherman is reported to have said "… can a Negro do our skirmishing and picket duty? Can they improvise bridges, sorties, flank movements, etc., like the white man? I say no." This gives me some insight as to what he thought of them. He considered those that would follow him as excess baggage, nothing more. So much for leading these poor down-trodden slaves out of that nasty old South and into the morally correct (pardon me while I gag) North.

More concerning his March to the Sea: What was left of the main Confederate army was in Tennessee trying to attack Sherman's supply lines and deal with two huge federal armies that were holding down the people of Tennessee and Kentucky. Sherman's advance from Chattanooga to Atlanta, opposed by a small but seasoned Confederate army, had not been so easy. The March through Georgia and Carolina was contested only by a few thousand cavalry and old men and boys of the home guard. When Sherman got to North Carolina he was met by the remnants of a genuine Southern army and was defeated by a small force at Bentonville.

Three hundred miles in 40 days against slight opposition is no feat of arms. It is rather slow progress – unless you allow for the time consumed by looting and burning out civilians. There was never any doubt as to the purpose of the March. It was to bring as much destruction as possible to the civilian population of an area of the South not previously invaded and occupied. And there is no doubt that Sherman was not acting against Confederate soldiers, but against the entire population. And no doubt that his motive was not "democracy, but "authority", that is, FORCED obedience to government.

Many of Sherman's men were veterans who had been occupying (and burning and looting) parts of the South for over three years. Yet we are supposed to believe that their experiences on the March suddenly opened their eyes to the evil of "Southern aristocracy" and drove them to relish its destruction. Charges of domination by "Southern aristocracy" were a part of Republican party propaganda before and during the war, but seldom a main theme. Lincoln himself never spoke of class conflict. Rather, he tended to blame Northern and Southern Democratic politicians, and said: "The Southern people are exactly what we would be in their situation." The real complaint against the "Southern aristocracy" was not elitism but the fact that they kept a brake on surrendering the federal government completely to mercantilism.

There was, however, at least one significant difference between the top echelon of the North and the South. General Sherman complained explicitly that rich men who had sacrificed everything were fighting as private soldiers in the Confederate army, while Northern men of property showed no such willingness.