Civil War History - General DiscussionFor Discussions on Civil War Era Personalities, Politics, Issues, Campaigns, Battles, and more. Serious Civil War Discussions Only Please! All other posts will be deleted.
As you might guess, Texas flags are flying all over the state. Businesses fly them and use them in their logos, people have them in their front yards, and our city buildings fly them. It seems like almost everywhere you see a U.S. flag here, a Texas one is next to it.
In my travels I take pictures of state flags at interstate rest stops. Almost all rest stops fly their state flags alone.
Texas flags are easy to shop for. There is a SPECIALTY flag shop in our local mall, but I haven't ever searched for a Texas flag in a general type store so can't say if they're available in Target, Sears, etc. Maybe this is because a flag is something you wouldn't consider consumable or disposable—it's kind of a once or twice in a lifetime purchase, so the bigbox stores don't sell them.
Personaly, I feel that the Confederate Flag should be displayed in museums, reenactments, memorials, and such. This PC attempt to destroy the symbols is an attempt to rewrite history. I agree with Shelby Foote that the flag was hijacked by racists and the honor of those who wore gray was sullied as a result.
I own three flags. A 1st National, a 3rd National, and a Battle/Naval Flag. I use the Battle/Naval for a background for a Troiani print of "Put the Boys In" that I own. I got two of them from a nice shop north of Gulfport, MS, on the road to Jackson. (I was taking a course at Keesler AFB at the time.)
As for statehouses, I feel that the citizens of the states themselves should decide what should fly there. There is no Confederate Flag over the capital building in Austin, but there were some nice memorial plaques at the Texas Supreme Court building (these were removed by order of Governor, now President Bush). There is a Confederate memorial in front of the capital.
Sadly, the PC crowd will not rest until this chapter in US History is expunged.
__________________ F. S. Powers
Union Ancersor: Pvt Arnuah Norton, 60th Ohio. (G-G-G Grandfather) Died at Salisbury NC, November 3, 1864
Confederate Ancestors: Captain Thomas A. Morrow, 29th Texas Cavalry (G-G-G- Uncle) and 2LT George W. Morrow, 31st Texas Cavalry (G-G-G Grandfather). Both survived the war
Mr. Powers, you wrote: "Sadly, the PC crowd will not rest until this chapter in US History is expunged." I suspect and pray it will take'em a while to accomplish this. Over 35,000 Sons of Confederate Veterans are trying to prevent it.
I'm a descendant of three Union veterans myself. (I just have a southern heart, as did those three.) Closest thing I have to a Norwegian ancestor, was old Rollo, 1st Duke of Normandy, a fightin' man himself.
There are quite a few pages, but I think they are all worth the read.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I read the series of article excerpts in their entirety and find myself in general agreement with the author. I recommend this to anyone in this group who is still wondering about the impact of slavery on the war. I have no qualms nor ever intend to argue that slavery was not the central theme of the southern perspective. The author uses the word "simplistic" several times and cautions against a casual generalization of the war and it's many facets. I think he's right. Reasons for this conflict and the personal participation by those involved are many. Slavery was the stinky mud holding the war together; four years of hell that should have been resolved in Congress or maybe by flipping a coin.
If all the players in the war had time to reflect on the situation as has this author, then perhaps an easier result could have occurred. Many a reb took to hating yanks. That's when it got out of hand. As for race relations, we still have a way to go and considering the state of affairs in 1861, perhaps this war was inevitable and unavoidable. Perhaps that is best for those suffering the most. The fracas continues, but progress is at least evident.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
By Leonard Pitts, a syndicated columnist based in Washington: McClatchy-Tribune Newspapers
March 4, 2008
Recently, a fellow journalist wrote to ask me for help.
His name is David Tintner, and he's a senior at Cooper City High South in Florida, where he's the editor of the school paper. Recently, he wrote a column criticizing those who wear what he regards as "an extremely offensive symbol": the Confederate battle flag. David says a group of students known on campus as "the Redneck Nation" took exception. A gang of them cornered him at lunch to yell at him. They've made threats and tried to stare him down.
Despite this, David writes that he "found it really cool that so many people actually read the paper. One kid who usually associates himself with the 'Rednecks' actually came up to me and said that after reading my column he put all of his Confederate flag attire away and won't wear it anymore. However, the rest of the 'Redneck Nation' seems to have it in for me now."
David added: "I'm sure you deal with this sort of thing all of the time. I mean, what's a good opinion piece if it doesn't make someone mad, right? I was just hoping you could offer a few words of wisdom. I would really appreciate it."
Dear David:
My first word of wisdom would be, watch your back. It sounds as if some of the folks you're dealing with aren't screwed on too tight. Let me offer you some answers to the arguments typically advanced by defenders of this American swastika.
They will tell you the Civil War was not about slavery. Remind them that the president and vice president of the so-called Confederate States of America both said it was.
They will tell you that great-great grandpa Zeke fought for the South, and he never owned any slaves. Remind them that it is political leaders -- not grunts -- who decide whether and why a war is waged.
They will tell you the flag just celebrates heritage. Remind them that "heritage" is not a synonym for "good." After all, Nazis have a heritage, too.
I wish I could say any of that will do you any good. Problem is, it's logic, and we live in a time where people are less able to accept, understand or respond to logic.
If you approach writing your column as I do mine, you see it as an attempt not to hammer down the other side but to persuade persuadable minds. Unfortunately, persuadable minds are an endangered species these days. You and I have the misfortune to live in a time and media culture when people think the loudness of the argument matters more than its coherence, when threats and intimidation substitute for logic and reason, a time of made-up "facts" and ideological "truth," a time when critical thinking is a lost art and ignorance is ascendant.
By way of example: I guarantee you the three lines of argument I gave you above will earn me loud rebuke from Confederate flag fetishists. They will insult my ancestry and intelligence, throw hissy fits of indignation. The one thing they will not be able to do -- this matters to me, though it will not matter to them -- is refute a single word of what I said.
I tell my column-writing classes that if ever you propound an argument and all the other side can do in response is have a tantrum, you may consider yourself the winner, by default, of that debate. It is, I grant you, small consolation, but I commend it to you anyway. If you insist on trying to be a reasonable person in an unreasonable time, you should get used to small consolations.
You can find another in what you yourself wrote about the young man who disavowed his Confederate gear because of your column. People do still read us, we do still have an effect and, once in a very great while, we can even take credit for change.
And you're right. That is the very definition of cool.
----------
Leonard Pitts is a syndicated columnist based in Washington. E-mail: lpitts@miamiherald.com
By Leonard Pitts, a syndicated columnist based in Washington: McClatchy-Tribune Newspapers
March 4, 2008
Recently, a fellow journalist wrote to ask me for help.
His name is David Tintner, and he's a senior at Cooper City High South in Florida, where he's the editor of the school paper. Recently, he wrote a column criticizing those who wear what he regards as "an extremely offensive symbol": the Confederate battle flag. David says a group of students known on campus as "the Redneck Nation" took exception. A gang of them cornered him at lunch to yell at him. They've made threats and tried to stare him down.
Despite this, David writes that he "found it really cool that so many people actually read the paper. One kid who usually associates himself with the 'Rednecks' actually came up to me and said that after reading my column he put all of his Confederate flag attire away and won't wear it anymore. However, the rest of the 'Redneck Nation' seems to have it in for me now."
David added: "I'm sure you deal with this sort of thing all of the time. I mean, what's a good opinion piece if it doesn't make someone mad, right? I was just hoping you could offer a few words of wisdom. I would really appreciate it."
Dear David:
My first word of wisdom would be, watch your back. It sounds as if some of the folks you're dealing with aren't screwed on too tight. Let me offer you some answers to the arguments typically advanced by defenders of this American swastika.
They will tell you the Civil War was not about slavery. Remind them that the president and vice president of the so-called Confederate States of America both said it was.
They will tell you that great-great grandpa Zeke fought for the South, and he never owned any slaves. Remind them that it is political leaders -- not grunts -- who decide whether and why a war is waged.
They will tell you the flag just celebrates heritage. Remind them that "heritage" is not a synonym for "good." After all, Nazis have a heritage, too.
I wish I could say any of that will do you any good. Problem is, it's logic, and we live in a time where people are less able to accept, understand or respond to logic.
If you approach writing your column as I do mine, you see it as an attempt not to hammer down the other side but to persuade persuadable minds. Unfortunately, persuadable minds are an endangered species these days. You and I have the misfortune to live in a time and media culture when people think the loudness of the argument matters more than its coherence, when threats and intimidation substitute for logic and reason, a time of made-up "facts" and ideological "truth," a time when critical thinking is a lost art and ignorance is ascendant.
By way of example: I guarantee you the three lines of argument I gave you above will earn me loud rebuke from Confederate flag fetishists. They will insult my ancestry and intelligence, throw hissy fits of indignation. The one thing they will not be able to do -- this matters to me, though it will not matter to them -- is refute a single word of what I said.
I tell my column-writing classes that if ever you propound an argument and all the other side can do in response is have a tantrum, you may consider yourself the winner, by default, of that debate. It is, I grant you, small consolation, but I commend it to you anyway. If you insist on trying to be a reasonable person in an unreasonable time, you should get used to small consolations.
You can find another in what you yourself wrote about the young man who disavowed his Confederate gear because of your column. People do still read us, we do still have an effect and, once in a very great while, we can even take credit for change.
And you're right. That is the very definition of cool.
----------
Leonard Pitts is a syndicated columnist based in Washington. E-mail: lpitts@miamiherald.com
"The free navigation of the Mississippi will never become the subject of treaty between the people of the Northwest and any other people whatsoever. It will never be accepted as a gratuity. It is their right, and they will assert it to the extremity of blotting Louisiana out of the map....This overrunning and exterminating may be a shocking thing, but if it becomes necessary to put an entirely new race of men in possession of Louisiana, to secure the great national right...the thing will be done. Call it by what name you choose it will be done."
Chicago Tribune, 25 February 1861
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Off topic, Battalion. If you want to call the NW states Nazis. Start another thread.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
