Question about Confederate Battle Flag?

[paulheels]

Ok, I am from SC and I have heard many stories about the battle flag. I have been wondering about one thing in particular. I have been told that the Confederate Flag of today is not the original battle flag, that it was different, I think it was grey background. I am not sure, can someone enlighten me on this issue please. Thanks

[larry_cockerham]

Welcome to the board! How great it is to see another southern face. There's a very inexpensive and easy to find little book (actually 8-1/2x11 in) by Devereaux D. Cannon, Jr. THE FLAGS OF THE CONFEDERACY, AN ILLUSTRATED HISTORY Pelican Pub. Co. There were several things going on. As the states seceded, each state produced a new national flag. South Carolina's was among the first and there were two of them. South Carolina troops used the silver crescent and fought under blue flags with a white crescent in the upper corner. Most of the Confederate regiments carried their own regimental flags into battle and these varied depending on the army and the regiment. You probably know the national flag evolved several times as well. The Cherokee and Choctow brigades had their own flag. Confederate army components probably went into battle with perhaps 100 different flags. (I haven't done a count, but there were a bunch)

[unionblue]

Larry and Paul,

The Museum of the Confederacy also put out a great book called the Colours Of The Gray, An Illustrated Index of Wartime Flags From The Museum of the Confederacy Collection, put together by Rebecca Ansell Rose, Curator of the Flag Collection, Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond, Virginia. It cost me $17.95 when I ordered it.

The Museum has the largest collection of Confederate flags in the world, numbering 650, including 510 of wartime origin. Although the book does not show all in the collection in it's 55 pages, it has some splendid color photos of many of them.

Might be worth checking out. I thought I got my money's worth and buying the book supports the museum's efforts at flag preservation and other efforts.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

[gary]

I got my money's worth from the Museum of the Confederacy when I did four days of research there. Hurrah for John Coski & the staff at MoC!

[larry_cockerham]

Paul, Richmond should be a required stopping point for all civil war buffs. Nowhere else on earth can you see a statue of Robert E. Lee and Arthur Ashe in the same neighborhood. Maybe Lee played tennis; I don't know.

Since you said you were from South Carolina, I'm curious if you could assist with general information, specific information, or just directions to locations traversed by the Army of Tennessee on their way from Mississippi to North Carolina in the spring of 1865? I'm trying to compose a small "book" about this campaign. So far I'm still in Mississippi, but could use some research help. Augusta to Orangeburg to Columbia to Charlotte?

Remember also that a lot of the (probably most)of the Confederate battle flags were made by local groups of ladies so there was not a huge amount of uniformity, particularly at the regimental level.

Remember also that the Confederate Flag was the official flag of the Confederate states and was and is referred to as the national flag. The provisional congress in 1861 established a committee of the flag and seal and chose William Porcher Miles of South Carolina as the chairman.

In his book Mr. Cannon wrote: "On the morning of March 4 [1861], large cambric models of the proposed flags were hung up on the walls of the Congressional chamber. The models of the three rejected patterns did not survive the war.... The flag which received the blessing of Congress was described in the following language: The flag of the Confederate States of America shall consist of a red field with a white space extending horizontally through the center, and equal in width to one-third the width of the flag. The red space above and below to be the same width as the white. The union blue extending down through the white space and stopping at the lower red space. In the center of the union a circle of white stars corresponding in number with the States in the Confederacy." Of course this was the first national flag with increasing numbers of stars and was used until 1863 when the Confederate Congress again changed the design.

Chairman Miles continued to be involved in this ongoing debate. Just as today these "Congressmen" seemed to be worried about matters of less importance than perhaps could have otherwise occupied their time. The second national flag was referred to as the 'stainless banner'and was used in one of it's first duties to drape the coffin of Stonewall Jackson.

With the Union Army about to wipe up what was left of the Army of Tennessee, the Confederate Congress, you guessed it, spent their time worrying about the flag again and made the third change with Davis' signature 4 Mar 1865 just a few weeks before Appamattox. Chairman Miles' original design for the cross was finally incorporated as the union of the new flag.

The heralded Bonnie Blue Flag, blue with a single white star, was used by West Florida in 1810, Texas 1836-39 and the Republic of Mississippi January 6 to 26, 1861.

The flag most folks call the battle flag was the one submitted to Congress by W.P. Miles on March 4, 1861 that was never adopted by the Congress, but was in fact used in varying versions by the troops in the field. It was easier to distinguish from the flag of the United States. This St. Andrews cross was incorporated into the national flag revision signed by Davis Mar 4 1865 mostly because the regiment's battle flags had used this format during most of the fighting and so many southern men had 'stained' and died under and near that banner.

[FSPowers]

This one seems interesting, so I'll bump this for our newer members.

[whitworth]

In his book, Lieut.-Col. Fremantle, who toured the South during the Civil War, and was at the Battle of Gettysburg, noted the western Confederate armies used different battle flags. In the west in 1863, it was a 'blue "battle flag" with a white border'.

The following are quotes from Fremantle's book.


"Each regiment carried a "battle-flag," blue, with a white border, on which were inscribed the names "Belmont," "Shiloh," "Perryville," "Richmond, Ky.," and "Murfreesboro'."


"The colors of the regiments differ from the blue battle-flags I saw with Bragg's army. They are generally red, with a blue St. Andrew's Cross showing the stars. This pattern is said to have been invented by General Joseph Johnston, as not so liable to be mistaken for the Yankee flag. The new Confederate flag has evidently been adopted from this battle-flag, as it is called. Most of the colors in this division bear the names Manassas, Fredericksburg, Seven Pines, Harper's Ferry, Chancellorsville, &c."

Three Months in the Southern States: April, June, 1863.
Lieut.-Col. Fremantle

[gary]

The one described by Fremantle is probably the Hardee flag. White fringe (if any), blue field, white snowball in the center, with the unit ID and its battle honours painted on it. I'm no expert on the matter though.

[Borderruffian]

I'll also go with the Hardee Flag in that it was or seemed to be the flag of choice in the AoT while Bragg commanded.

[samgrant]

So many flags, so little time.

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