Who and why did Grant bring East?

[samgrant]

We all know that when grant was brought east to be Gen. in Chief, etc., that he left the west in the capable hands of his best subordinates, Sherman, McPherson, and Thomas (among others).

But he also made the decision to bring with him certain of his assets from the west, among them, Philip Sheridan and James H. Wilson (both of those cavalry).

Do you know of any other significant officers Grant brought with him other than these? and of all of them, including Sheridan and Wilson, why do you think he chose them to come with him?

[ole]

Grant knew he could leave the west to Sherman. He did, however, need to jack some new blood into the AoP. So Sherman could do without Sheridan, Grant needed that jolt.

Sheridan was much like Sherman -- not much on his own, but hell on wheels when directed. The "your wish is my command" sort of thing, and they meant it. Both were stong personalities in their own right, but both accepted the judgement of a superior officer and did everything in their power to do what was asked of them. That's not entirely bad, is it?

Sherman, for example, had every opportunity to seek promotion based on his accomplishments. He chose, several times, to stay subordinate to Grant. Call it a wavery character if you want, I call it that he knew that subordinate was his calling. And he fulfilled that position with a singular vigor.

I could be wrong.
Ole

[trice]

Originally Posted by samgrant

We all know that when grant was brought east to be Gen. in Chief, etc., that he left the west in the capable hands of his best subordinates, Sherman, McPherson, and Thomas (among others).

Thomas was capable and respected, but he and Grant did not get along. Apparently, Grant suspected that Thomas had been maneuvering to get Grant's command after Shiloh (when Grant was kicked up and sideways int a meaningless 2nd-in-command spot and Thomas temporarily had field command of Grant's force) and Grant's reception at Chattanooga when he arrived (cold, wet, on crutches and exhausted after the trip over the "Cracker Line" was certainly cool.

There was some controversy about who would get command in the West, Thomas or Sherman. Thomas was senior in rank. Sherman told Grant that it didn't matter, that he and Thomas were friends and either would work with the other in command. Sherman's own record implied he was a good soldier, a tough fighter, bright -- and a very poor offensive tactician. Thomas' record implied that he could handle anything -- but moved at his own pace. Grant chose Sherman, and Thomas served him faithfully.

Both Grant and Sherman thought McPherson was something special. I have never been able to see it. Obviously capable, but in the 1864 campaign McPherson seems to have twice let major opportunities slip away through an excess of caution. Maybe he just wasn't lucky, since he ended up dead by July.

Originally Posted by samgrant

But he also made the decision to bring with him certain of his assets from the west, among them, Philip Sheridan and James H. Wilson (both of those cavalry).

Sheridan was a 2nd choice. In early 1864, Grant was actually floating the idea of making use of the military talent sitting on the sidelines for political reasons: men like McClellan, Buell, and Franklin. The Lincoln administration was reluctant, and McClellan/Buell refused. Grant wanted Franklin for the AoP cavalry command, and when it was becoming apparent that wasn't going to fly Halleck suggested Sheridan (a Halleck protege/flunky back in 1861-62). Grant, who also admired Sheridan's ability, agreed in a flash.

At the time, Sheridan was commanding an infantry division in Thomas' AoC. When called to HQ, he thought he was going to get Granger's Corps for the coming command and was stunned (and ecstatic) to be going to Virginia.

Wilson was an engineer and staff officer who Grant had used in the Vicksburg campaigns, often making him an on-the-spot representative of the commander. He had never commanded cavalry before he came East in 1864 to become head of the Cavalry Bureau. He did not get along well with Sheridan.

Originally Posted by samgrant

Do you know of any other significant officers Grant brought with him other than these? and of all of them, including Sheridan and Wilson, why do you think he chose them to come with him?

"Baldy" Smith. Grant was very impressed with him after Chattanooga. He seems to have brought him East with the idea of leaving Butler in command of the Army of the James while Smith added some push to the field command. Eventually Grant got rid of Smith because of his inability to get along with other commanders.

Regards,
Tim

[wt_jimbos]

Trice,
it's interesting that you mention that McPherson was seen as special and not being able to see why.

When you look at McPherson record as you said. At Raymond where McPherson was cautious and was held up by a Confederate Brigade (Gregg's), it puzzles me how that small force held him up for so long. Also at Jackson while sherman was willing to push up and also flank the enemy works, McPherson when fired on by artillery held back, formed into battle order then pushed forward several lines of skirmishers and let the morning pass before ordering forward his forces. Rain or not McPherson come across and a plodder, which makes him and interesting choice for cutting the railroad at resaca. Many texts put it down to Sherman wanted the Army of the Tennesse to be the glory winner, and we do know that McPherson was loved, who better to have that glory.

As for McPherson making an impression Grant and Sherman it's seems to be a very common theme among West Pointers who faught on bothsides. Every Memoir I have read of that makes mention of McPherson always puts him forward as not only a charasmatic character but one of great influence.
I have a feeling much of his success was due to his personality, he seemed to be the guy everyone loved. For one thing it seems that Grant's disliking for McClernard began to manifest around the time McPherson was not getting along with McClernard, as you know McClernard didn't like to have his command/rank undermind, but he was a productive officer and Grant and he got along well prior.



For a great account of the Vicksburg campaign in a good breakdown of events I would highly recommned the US army college Battlefield Guide to the Vicksburg campaign. I would love if anyone could recommend good books that are written on the individual battles.

[trice]

Originally Posted by wt_jimbos

Trice,
it's interesting that you mention that McPherson was seen as special and not being able to see why.

When you look at McPherson record as you said. At Raymond where McPherson was cautious and was held up by a Confederate Brigade (Gregg's), it puzzles me how that small force held him up for so long. Also at Jackson while sherman was willing to push up and also flank the enemy works, McPherson when fired on by artillery held back, formed into battle order then pushed forward several lines of skirmishers and let the morning pass before ordering forward his forces. Rain or not McPherson come across and a plodder, which makes him and interesting choice for cutting the railroad at resaca. Many texts put it down to Sherman wanted the Army of the Tennesse to be the glory winner, and we do know that McPherson was loved, who better to have that glory.

Yes, that's about the way I see it. He looks to me like McClellan without the arrogance, never in true high command so never really exposed to the searing light of examination seen at that level.

He often looks like an excellent professional soldier, an organizer, a leader men were willing to follow. But I also see several spots where, when in an independent command situation he acted slow and cautious, letting opportunity slip past. This is not Stonewall Jackson or Sheridan or Hancock. He looks like a good Corps commander who does not stand out as an independent commander -- yet Grant and Sherman seem to think he was. It puzzles me.

Originally Posted by wt_jimbos

As for McPherson making an impression Grant and Sherman it's seems to be a very common theme among West Pointers who faught on bothsides. Every Memoir I have read of that makes mention of McPherson always puts him forward as not only a charasmatic character but one of great influence.
I have a feeling much of his success was due to his personality, he seemed to be the guy everyone loved. For one thing it seems that Grant's disliking for McClernard began to manifest around the time McPherson was not getting along with McClernard, as you know McClernard didn't like to have his command/rank undermind, but he was a productive officer and Grant and he got along well prior.

Grant was a particular type. He would put up with most things, but if you ever got in his doghouse he was really good at playing the "old Army Game" to get rid of you. In particular, he was opposed to people who put themselves ahead of the needs of the nation, or who could not get along with their fellow commanders.

Originally Posted by wt_jimbos

For a great account of the Vicksburg campaign in a good breakdown of events I would highly recommned the US army college Battlefield Guide to the Vicksburg campaign. I would love if anyone could recommend good books that are written on the individual battles.

The best overall source is generally regarded as Edwin C. Bearss The Campaign for Vicksburg (3 volumes, 1985-86) from Morningside. I don't have a suggestion for a single battle, unfortunately.

Regards,
Tim

[ole]

wt_jimbos:

Talk about a blast from the past! Great to see you back, sir.

Aside from Bearss books, a must-read on the entire campaign is Warren Grabau's Ninety-Eight Days. Great maps and a good read. The singular battle in the campaign was fought at Champion Hill. A good book with that title was done by Timothy B. Smith.

Have you looked into abebooks.com? It has a number of outlets down under. (Is "down under" offensive to you folks hailing from that area? Would not want to offend, even unintentionally.)

Whatever. Welcome back. Hope you were just busy with other things. BTW, how does that Sharps shoot?
Ole

[wt_jimbos]

G'day Ole,
It has been a while, but I have been on nightshift and it was quiet so I had quick browse.

My sharps is shooting really well, I found the best way to make cartridges was to use cigarette papers with tissue paper in the rear.
It is a very accurate little carbine and my girlfriend uses it mostly as her little arms can't hold up my 3 band.

I do use abebooks but I have been using www.bookfinder.com it finds the cheapest and it too has big database.

Ole I hope to get back into posting regularly after mid july, I am busy researching Resaca for a talk I am giving at the Civil War Round Table in Melbourne. And I am going for a brown belt in ju jitsu in a couple of weeks.

Thanks for the book titles guys.

[samgrant]

[quote=wt_jimbos]
I do use abebooks but I have been using www.bookfinder.com it finds the cheapest and it too has big database.

quote]

Just for info: Abebooks acquired Bookfinder somewhat recently. What difference that makes price I am not sure, but I did find a book at Bookfinder's which linked back to Abebooks (at the same stated price) as well as other sellers. It appears Bookfinders is sort of a 'clearing house' of various sellers including their adopted parent

[samgrant]

[quote=wt_jimbos]
I do use abebooks but I have been using www.bookfinder.com it finds the cheapest and it too has big database.

quote]

Just for info: Abebooks acquired Bookfinder somewhat recently. What difference that makes price I am not sure, but I did find a book at Bookfinder's which linked back to Abebooks (at the same stated price) as well as other sellers. It appears Bookfinders is sort of a 'clearing house' of various sellers including their adopted parent.

(Whoo, isn't it nutty when you hit some mystery key that causes your stuff to suddenly scroll rapidly to the bottom!)

[johan_steele]

Originally Posted by wt_jimbos

Trice,
it's interesting that you mention that McPherson was seen as special and not being able to see why.

When you look at McPherson record as you said. At Raymond where McPherson was cautious and was held up by a Confederate Brigade (Gregg's), it puzzles me how that small force held him up for so long. Also at Jackson while sherman was willing to push up and also flank the enemy works, McPherson when fired on by artillery held back, formed into battle order then pushed forward several lines of skirmishers and let the morning pass before ordering forward his forces. Rain or not McPherson come across and a plodder, which makes him and interesting choice for cutting the railroad at resaca. Many texts put it down to Sherman wanted the Army of the Tennesse to be the glory winner, and we do know that McPherson was loved, who better to have that glory.

As for McPherson making an impression Grant and Sherman it's seems to be a very common theme among West Pointers who faught on bothsides. Every Memoir I have read of that makes mention of McPherson always puts him forward as not only a charasmatic character but one of great influence.
I have a feeling much of his success was due to his personality, he seemed to be the guy everyone loved. For one thing it seems that Grant's disliking for McClernard began to manifest around the time McPherson was not getting along with McClernard, as you know McClernard didn't like to have his command/rank undermind, but he was a productive officer and Grant and he got along well prior.



For a great account of the Vicksburg campaign in a good breakdown of events I would highly recommned the US army college Battlefield Guide to the Vicksburg campaign. I would love if anyone could recommend good books that are written on the individual battles.

Another superb look at the Union AoT is Woodworth's Nothing but Victory. It details all aspects of the campaigns of the AoT. From terrain to logistics a must read.