Civil War History - The Eastern TheaterDiscuss any and all battles, movements, and events occuring in the Eastern Theater here! This includes any actions in tha area east of the Appalachian Mountains in the vicinity of the river capitals of Richmond and Washington D.C.
Was it a sign of strength that the ANV lasted until 1865?
Did Grant want the AoP to win at Petersburg and in Virginia in late 1864, while Georgia, Alabama, South and North Carolina remained in Confederate hands?
Grant saved on a lot of casualties after Cold Harbor. By the time Grant seriously struck Lee's defenses in 1865, there was virtually no Confederate army in the entire Confederacy.
After word came to Virginia, that Sherman was making his march to the sea, the Army of Northern Virginia started evaporating through desertions.
Good point on the II Corps. Grant loved to use the II as his vanguard Corps to deliver attacks in the Overland campaign, and as a result by the time they got to Petersburg that Corps was wiped out of most of its vets.
Did Grant want the AoP to win at Petersburg and in Virginia in late 1864, while Georgia, Alabama, South and North Carolina remained in Confederate hands?
I'd say yes and no. Grant clearly was trying to strangle Lee's supply lines rather than launch an all out assault on Lee's lines. But Grant absolutely was looking for an opportunity to breach Lee's line. The June 15-18 attacks and the Crater fiasco were both obvious attempts to break Lee's lines and capture Petersburg. Also, throughout the "right, left" offensives, Grant still looked for an opportunity to potentially seize Petersburg. These offensives were carried out with the immediate goal of breaking Lee's supply lines, but also with the goal of looking for a chance to raise the siege. I'm not sure of Grant's exact wording of his orders, but he was certainly on the look out for a chance to strike the fatal blow. He didn't was perfectly willing to starve Lee out, but if he had the chance he wasn't going to delay the capture of victory to allow events in other areas to proceed.
Respectfully
__________________ Up men, and to your post! And let no man forget today that you are from old Virginia!
Well, he had the Rebs in his grip, thats for sure, just a matter of shaking it to death.
That's a good analogy I think. Picture Grant as a lion with a wildebeast's neck in its grip. The victim is never going to get out of that vise, and it is inevitably going to sufficate in the process. Of course my version conveniently forgets that Lee's wildebeast did managae to loosen the grasp long enough to turn and stumble several hundred feet, but those are the breaks...
Yes, that's a fair analogy (even Lee knew he was cornered) but it might be a bit generous to Grant. The strangling process wasn't very pretty, was it? Ultimately successful, but with some rather embarrasing missteps along the way. Maybe Grant was a lion that gets clawed in the face, but has the strength to kill the weaker animal in the end.
Respectfully
__________________ Up men, and to your post! And let no man forget today that you are from old Virginia!
Yes, that's a fair analogy (even Lee knew he was cornered) but it might be a bit generous to Grant. The strangling process wasn't very pretty, was it? Ultimately successful, but with some rather embarrasing missteps along the way. Maybe Grant was a lion that gets clawed in the face, but has the strength to kill the weaker animal in the end.
Respectfully
Let's say Grant is an adolescent lion making one of his first kills. There are some slips of the chokehold, but the end result is almost assured. I say "almost" because according to research done by Kevin Levin, a high school history teacher and aspiring author, Confederates around Petersburg still believed they could win the fight and break the Siege as late as August 1864, and even later in some cases.
I think there certainly was a hardened core of Confederates that believed they could prevail. Grant's whole handling of the Petersburg campaign reinforces my belief that he could visualize the bigger picture and create a winning strategy but could not handle the AOP tactically. I think Grant showed that he could act decisively tactically with the Army of the Tennesse, but to me at least he seemed to be in a little over his head once he went east. Certainly the Petersburg fiascos weren't entirely Grant's fault, but I see no spark of genius in any of Grant's eastern actions, really. Well, maybe except for his crossing of the James. But at Petersburg Grant just sort of shoved a couple corps on each flank and let them sit there, often with painful results.
Respectfully
__________________ Up men, and to your post! And let no man forget today that you are from old Virginia!
Dear Brett,
I read Levin's blog regularly. It's interesting and thoughtful. I am a high school teacher as well, just like him, except he knows what he's talking about.
Joe Johnston was relieved in part because Davis thought he was about to abandon Atlanta. What if Lee went to Davis the winter of 64-65 and said, "we're playing Grant's game by conducting siege operations here. Why not evacuate the government from Richmond in an orderly fashion, reestablish it ****her to the South, and I abandon the lines here, and grind down the Yankees in an 2nd overland campaign as they pursue."
The down side is losing the manufacturing and transportation hub of Richmond, as well as the blow to morale. The upside is its a gamble that gives Lee the initiative and timetable on a move they're going to have to make anyway. If Grant is as tactically clumsy as he is described by nbforrest and others, perhaps Lee could inflict a serious defeat on the AoP.
I think an abandonment of Petersburg/Richmond would just be jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire. If Lee would have moved south, not only would Grant be pursuing him, but Sherman could have cut loose from Johnston and sent his men, or at least a portion, to aid Grant. That was exactly Sherman's ultimate plan. He would have just had to reverse course. Even assuming Johnston remained seperated from Lee and Sherman did not aid Grant, Lee would have had no real supply lines. Add to that Thomas' victorious army free to pitch in, and the ultimate Mobile campaign...Lee would just be trapped. Schofield could also have easily been taken from the Wilmington operation and sent after Lee as well. By then the Union cavalry arm would have been roaming the south (think Wilson's raid). Just a no win situation for the South.
Respectfully
__________________ Up men, and to your post! And let no man forget today that you are from old Virginia!
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Was it a sign of strength that the ANV lasted until 1865? 
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