Civil War History - The Eastern TheaterDiscuss any and all battles, movements, and events occuring in the Eastern Theater here! This includes any actions in tha area east of the Appalachian Mountains in the vicinity of the river capitals of Richmond and Washington D.C.
Shouldn't be up this late. But I can't sleep, and thought I would come back and check the forum.
You are quite correct in your observation ole, that the Federal artillery tended to outshoot the Confederate arty. And yes, this was in large part due to the ordinance they fired, in particular, the fuses and gunpowder. That was the primary problem at Gettysburg. If you remember in the movie, a comment was made that the "rebs are overshooting again." Many shells that the Confederates fired had bad fuzes and they would either detonate too soon, too late, or just plow into the ground behind the enemy and never go off. With all the damage done to the Federal artillery on Cemetery Ridge on July 3, the damage could have been far worse had the ordinance worked to its full effect. They did manage to drive some of the Federal batteries off the line, but they were quickly replaced by reserve batteries, and the batteries that stayed on the line could resupply their limbers. The Confederate ammo trains were too far back. That was one reason for the failure of the PPT charge.
Malvern Hill was kind of the same thing, though different in many respects. The Federals had a great position with massed artillery, but the Confederates could not mass their artillery. They had a much more narrow area to place their cannons and when the batteries there were used up, another would come up. If they had been able to mass artillery, maybe the battle would have turned out different. Another wonderful what if of the war. But the same result as Gettysburg occured. Superior artillery on high ground tends to always win the day.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
Very good article on Malvern Hill in this months North and South magazine by Stephen Sears.
Lee was ill and had Longstreet riding with him in case he had to pass command off to him during the battle. Orders were badly conveyed from Lee through his couriers to the division commanders.
Their plan for Confederate artillery was 2 mass batteries on each end of the line (40 to 60 guns each). The one on the left side got 3 batteries in place when the Feds started shelling them. They withdrew 3 more took their place and was shredded as well. Longstreet personally picked the site for the ones on the right, but the path to the site was only wide enough to allow one gun at a time to move into place so it took forever.
Like I said very good article by Sears I left a lot out don't want to spill it all out here. Also foreshadows future breakdowns in Lee and his subordinates being on the same page ie Gettysburg with how badly Huger, DH Hill and Magruder handle themselves.
Very good article on Malvern Hill in this months North and South magazine by Stephen Sears.
Lee was ill and had Longstreet riding with him in case he had to pass command off to him during the battle. Orders were badly conveyed from Lee through his couriers to the division commanders.
Their plan for Confederate artillery was 2 mass batteries on each end of the line (40 to 60 guns each). The one on the left side got 3 batteries in place when the Feds started shelling them. They withdrew 3 more took their place and was shredded as well. Longstreet personally picked the site for the ones on the right, but the path to the site was only wide enough to allow one gun at a time to move into place so it took forever.
Like I said very good article by Sears I left a lot out don't want to spill it all out here. Also foreshadows future breakdowns in Lee and his subordinates being on the same page ie Gettysburg with how badly Huger, DH Hill and Magruder handle themselves.
I think the article is based on his essay in "With My Face To the Enemy: Perspectives on the Civil War". I picked up an audio book copy in the bargain bin, and the essay by Sears on Malvern Hill was the best of the essays, in my opinion.
Looking back over this thread, after hearing Sears essay, it is clear that the attack on Malvern Hill was a series of mistakes. The two grand batteries never came off and the infantry attack was really not supposed to happen. It was poor staff work by Lee that led to the slaughter.
That being said, I can certainly see why Malvern Hill would not be an object lesson for Lee at Gettysburg. One can almost see him thinking that Gettysburg could be his Malvern Hill ideas with proper coordination this time.
And let us not forget that several times in the war frontal assaults, especially by Confederates, did breach the line. At Gettysburg, I think Lee saw that the Confederates actually did achieve breakthoughs on the second day which, if properly coordinated, could have broken through the Union position.
That being said, either he did not properly coordinate the assault, allowing the assaulting divisions to be flanked, or did not appreciate the enfilading artillery fire, or both.
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
I have a friend who went to Malvern Hill last year and he
said that there wasn't much of a hill there. He described it more of a swag in the landscape. Does anyone have a better description? Where did Malvern Hill get it's name?
I have a friend who went to Malvern Hill last year and he
said that there wasn't much of a hill there. He described it more of a swag in the landscape. Does anyone have a better description? Where did Malvern Hill get it's name?
When you think about it, Cemetery Ridge and Seminary Ridge weren't exactly ridges when one thinks of a ridge; they were more like higher points with a little dip in the landscape in between, unlike Missionary Ridge, which was a substantial elevation.
I would agree that Malvern Hill is not a greatly obvious hill, but if you are standing where the Union artillery was posted, you can see it slopes downward, and standing where the Confederate arty was at, you are obviously looking at an upward slope. I have some pictures; I will try to upload them for you and you can see what I mean.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
The two grand batteries never came off and the infantry attack was really not supposed to happen. It was poor staff work by Lee that led to the slaughter.
Why does this sound familiar?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
When you think about it, Cemetery Ridge and Seminary Ridge weren't exactly ridges when one thinks of a ridge; they were more like higher points with a little dip in the landscape in between, unlike Missionary Ridge, which was a substantial elevation.
Yeah. When we hear "the high ground," we frequently think of a Missionary Ridge rather than simply slightly higher ground. One or two hundred feet of elevation over a mile or so is hardly enough to get a good tobaggan run. But it does give an advantage to those holding it. Would "better field of fire" describe it?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I'm a native Richmonder and been to Malvern Hill 2 or 3 times. It is not what you would think of as a hill like Marye's Heights at Fredericksburg etc.
It's more of a plateau with an extremely gently and suttle slope.
From the site the Fed Park has set up there's a good 300 yards or so slight down slope to a ravine as you look from the Federal line. They have the field cut just as it was in 62, it was a killing field.
yes the attack was a total blunder. The frontal assault was really never supposed to happen. Late in the day Lee had changed his mind and was going to flank with Longstreet and AP Hill but by the time he decided that, Magruder was going straight forward. Sears speculates Magruder did this because Lee had chastised him for not being more aggressive earlier in the 7 days.
**it always happens when you least expect it. Don't it, Jamie? Good information. Haven't been to Malvern Hill. Maybe, if ever I get out that way, you'd find some time to show me around?
old
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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