Civil War History - The Eastern TheaterDiscuss any and all battles, movements, and events occuring in the Eastern Theater here! This includes any actions in tha area east of the Appalachian Mountains in the vicinity of the river capitals of Richmond and Washington D.C.
I hope you don't mind my reviving this old thread.
EWC, I just read your post toward the beginning defending Joe Johnston -- it's excellent. For me, Joe Johnston is probably the most difficult general to evaluate. I keep going back and forth on him. At the moment, I guess I'm somewhat more negative than you are. Although you discuss it, I guess I'd emphasize more his utter failure to give Jefferson Davis any meaningful information due their personal and strategic differences. I'm no fan of Davis, but Johnston must have known that one of Davis's trademark traits was the obsessive need to get as much information as possible -- and that the failure to give him that information would drive him crazy.
I try to put myself in Davis's shoes as of July 1864, for example. Right or wrong, I (as Davis) think that it is politically imperative to defend and retain Atlanta if humanly possible. I'm asking what Joe Johnston's intentions are. Is he going to defend Atlanta, and if so how? AND I CAN'T GET A MEANINGFUL ANSWER. What am I supposed to do?
The other thing that disturbs me about Johnston is that he tended to present Davis with faits accomplis (which presumably weighed on Davis when he was deciding whether to relieve Joe). The outstanding example is during the Peninsula Campaign when Johnston retreated across the Chickahominy and to the outskirts of Richmond. He didn't tell Davis (presumably because he knew what Davis's reaction would be). Davis first discovered what Johnston had done, as I recall, when he took a ride to see Johnston, expecting to find him on the South (or is it the West?) bank of the Chickahominy -- but instead found him right outside the city. Davis was stunned. The retreat from Manassas Junction and destruction of the stores there, and the retreat from Yorktown may be other examples. I believe Johnston was authorized to make these moves if necessary, but in neither case did Johnston tell Davis he was doing so, and Davis was particularly appalled by the loss of supplies at Manassas.
Don't get me wrong. I give Johnston credit for a number of things. For example, his advice to Pemberton before Champion Hill was spot on. Johnston wanted Pemberton to join him. Pemberton failed to comply. As a result, he lost both the city and his entire army. Had he followed Johnston's advice, at least he'd have saved the army.
One other question: Do you think Joe would have defended Atlanta?
Why do you think so? If Joe intended to hold Atlanta, why on Earth did he not send his commander in chief a message clearly so stating? This was clearly what Davis wanted to hear. Did Johnston hate Davis so much by that point that he purposefully failed to convey that information? Is it not more reasonable to infer that Joe acted as he did precisely because he did not intend to make a serious defense of the city and knew that Davis would go ballistic if that's what he reported?
I'm thinking Johnston was doing the best he could with what he had in his typically cautious manner. In later spring 1864 the southern troops were depleted of seasoned veterans (in the western theater) thanks to Shiloh, Murfreesboro and Chickamauga battles. New recruits were drafted in large numbers during that winter of 63-64 but were very young and raw. The long campaign in northern Virginia had left Lee with no surplus manpower either after Gettysburg. Lee was still trying to figure a way to defend Richmond, so Johnston was not getting much back-up. As you know there were defenses built all that spring surrounding Atlanta, but very few new supplies or manpower showed up. I'm not defending Johnston perse, he was a cautious old soul, the kind of guy I'd have wanted looking out for my butt. The US Army was bigger, fresher, better equipped and just as ably led. That was the story of the war from 1863 forward. John Bell Hood was a p poor choice at that stage of his career with his mental and physical condition, perhaps earlier it might have worked out better. Johnston 'rested' the winter of 64-65 and gave it his best at Bentonville. Too little too late.
Last edited by larry_cockerham : 04-15-2005 at 03:35 PM.
Reason: Lee defended Richmond, not Atlanta. senior moment
I don't think it would have really mattered what Johnston told Davis. The Confederacy was out of money and connections at that point in the war. Davis was less than a year away from packing his bags and the Confederate 'treasury' and heading towards Mississippi.
Johnston didn't communicate any plans to Davis because based on his experiences in Virginia his plans would have been in the newspapers the next day. He was trying to maintain secrecy and that's assuming he actually did have a plan.
My opinion of Johnston is changing. I don't think he was as bad as I once thought.
His tactics of retreating and fighting when a good opportunity presented itself kinda reminds me of Nathaniel Greene. Greene didn't win any battles but managed to help win the Revolution.
Lee could win resounding victories but aside from Second Manassas he never exploited those victories to his advantage. He just wasted precious manpower in the process.
Lee couldn't think beyond Virginia and Jeff Davis managed the west horribly.
General Johnston was well liked by his troops. He never sent them into a needless assault, with little hope of victory. He fought a good delaying action against Sherman, a master at tactical moves.
The problem with General Johnston was he was fighting for the CSA, with its inadequate amount of soldiers and supplies.
If a Joe Johnson can't win in Georgia, perhaps the Confederacy should have looked at negotiations. But Jefferson Davis and the Confederate Congress were clueless, even when the writing was on the wall.
Johnston is relieved and Hood takes command; goes on the offensive and destroys his army at Atlanta, Franklin and Nashville.
Elsewhere on this board, Cassville has been a subject of debate, Hood not only destroyed the AOT when he commanded it, but nullified Johnston's best chance of successfully attacking Sherman, at Cassville, by running from some cavalry. Johnston's plans are similar to what Erich Von Manstein tried to do on the eastern front in WWII but, unlike Manstein, Johnston was relieved before having the chance to implement phase 2, snapping back against locally inferior and overstretched troops.
Respectfully,
Matt
In the battles that lead up to Atlanta, JEJ fought over tougher to defend ground, with only one supply line, facing a much superior force of hardcore fighting men. He gave up less ground and had fewer casualties than Lee did in the east. Yet he is looked upon as a coward and Lee as a hero? JEJ had the only workable plan to survive in the western theater. IMO had JEJ remained in charge there would have been no March to the Sea. Sherman would not have left JEJ and JEJ would not have left Sherman with an open front.
Rick
__________________ "We made a great mistake in the beginning of our struggle.... We appointed all our worst generals to command our armies, and all our best generals to edit the newspapers"
- Robert E. Lee
The Battle Flag of The Madison Light Artillery (Louisiana) MOODY'S BATTERY - 24 Pound Howitzers
Alexander's Battalion
Longstreets Corps
The irony is, davis is treated with equal disrespect. Napoleonic tactics would never suceed without maneuver, this lesson has been taught with soldier's blood since ancient times. Johnston understood that and sought an opportunity to get sherman with the CSA at an advantage in manpower. Unfortunately Davis and the other political generals got in the way. If I was in the AOT I'd sooner trust JEJ than that homicidal fool, Bragg. Ferdinand Foch once said, "it takes 15000 dead to train a major general." In bragg's case, it took a h*** of a lot more, for less retained material.
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