Civil War History - The Eastern TheaterDiscuss any and all battles, movements, and events occuring in the Eastern Theater here! This includes any actions in tha area east of the Appalachian Mountains in the vicinity of the river capitals of Richmond and Washington D.C.
The problem was, Lee attacked too often, drew down his strength. Attack, yes, but do so intelligently ie flank or rear. Too many of Lee's assaults were directly into enemy lines that were ready to recieve a frontal attack. a few examples, AP+ DH Hill towards an entrenched and dug in Porter at Mechanicsville/ Beaver dam creek 1862 PPT charge at Gettysburg stone wall, Anderson against Hancock Wilderness natural cover /wooden defenses 1864,
I disagree. Chancellorsville...if Lee didn't orchestrate a flank attack there, I don't know what he did. And remember, Beaver Dam Creek was supposed to involve a flank attack...Jackson screwed up. And Glendale was supposed to involve a flank attack...Jackson screwed up again. And Malvern Hill was supposed to have flanking attacks...everything went wrong there. Lee used a flanking attack at 2nd Manassas (heck, the whole campaign was a big flanking maneuver). He used a flanking maneuver again at Chantilly. Bristoe Station campaign was another big flanking maneuver. He did use a flanking maneuver at the Wilderness...Longstreet. And the attacks out of Petersburg often struck the Yanks in the flank.
Lee did not just use frontal attacks...he did use front attacks too...and most of the time it was Longstreet attacking.
Respectfully
__________________ Up men, and to your post! And let no man forget today that you are from old Virginia!
He did use a flanking maneuver at the Wilderness...Longstreet. And the attacks out of Petersburg often struck the Yanks in the flank Bristoe Station campaign was another big flanking maneuver. He did use a flanking maneuver at the Wilderness...Longstreet. And the attacks out of Petersburg often struck the Yanks in the flank.
Lee did not just use frontal attacks...he did use front attacks too...and most of the time it was Longstreet attacking.
Respectfully
Bristoe station also cost him 2000 men since Hill did not adequately guard his flank. It was Longstreet's engineer who pointed that RR cut out. If Lee was so anxious to flank hancock, why did he wait several hours and allow hancock's demoralized troops to pull clear, why not send Anderson's division straight up through the cut and let Field's division reform similtaneously? Similar to Jackson pulling AP Hill forward at C'ville so Colston and Rodes could reform and advance behind his lead.
Respectfully,
Matt
Back to if I may Second Manassas. I have read from a few yeah to wait was the right thing for long street. Well lets see Jackson and his line along the railroad are in battle for about a day and Longstreet fights for about 3 hours if that not starting till Aug 30th at around 4:30 in the afternoon does Hood advance and start the attck for Longstreet. At 7p.m the night before Hood had battled till night fall. Also during the day of the 29th as LOngstreet sat starting about 10:30a.m wjile Jackson Fought the Union brought more men in through the day. Porter on the 30th hits Jackson and is driven back hard and that is when as the union drops back on to Warrenton turnpike that Hood starts to drive and the rest of Longstreet follows. I'm sorry but the wait that Longstreet did hurt anychance of closing on the union with good effect from both sides with Jackson's lines being tired and hit hard. You said he waited till they stretched there line he didn't move till the Union were being pushed back. Sorry my belief still is he sat to long and did not nail the coffin when he should have.
Well lets see Jackson and his line along the railroad are in battle for about a day and Longstreet fights for about 3 hours if that not starting till Aug 30th at around 4:30 in the afternoon does Hood advance and start the attck for Longstreet.
Lee, Jackson, and Longstreet all held a conferenced on the 29th I believe. Jackson told them that he could hold and didn't need assisstance.
If Lee were annoyed with Longstreet he could have easily ordered him to advance earlier than he did.
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I'm sorry but the wait that Longstreet did hurt anychance of closing on the union with good effect from both sides with Jackson's lines being tired and hit hard.
What makes you think that Jackson's men, after hard marching and fighting for days, could have pulled off a pincer movement on Pope?
Jackson's men were so used up that Lee realized that he had to give up on his pursuit after Chantilly.
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Sorry my belief still is he sat to long and did not nail the coffin when he should have.
Longstreet advised the prudent course of action and Lee agreed with him. If he charged straight ahead he could have been attacked in the rear and flank.
Pope meanwhile continued to use up his men as he sent more and more hammer blows into Jackson's line. He made his army a sitting duck for Longstreet.
Bristoe station also cost him 2000 men since Hill did not adequately guard his flank. It was Longstreet's engineer who pointed that RR cut out. If Lee was so anxious to flank hancock, why did he wait several hours and allow hancock's demoralized troops to pull clear, why not send Anderson's division straight up through the cut and let Field's division reform similtaneously? Similar to Jackson pulling AP Hill forward at C'ville so Colston and Rodes could reform and advance behind his lead.
Lee wasn't on the scene. Hill was acting on his own.
And Hancock wasn't at Bristoe Station. He was recuperating from his wound. Warren was the II Corps commander. Why would Longstreet's engineer be there? Anderson and Field weren't there...this was the III Corps at Bristoe.
Respectfully
__________________ Up men, and to your post! And let no man forget today that you are from old Virginia!
Back to if I may Second Manassas. I have read from a few yeah to wait was the right thing for long street. Well lets see Jackson and his line along the railroad are in battle for about a day and Longstreet fights for about 3 hours if that not starting till Aug 30th at around 4:30 in the afternoon does Hood advance and start the attck for Longstreet. At 7p.m the night before Hood had battled till night fall. Also during the day of the 29th as LOngstreet sat starting about 10:30a.m wjile Jackson Fought the Union brought more men in through the day. Porter on the 30th hits Jackson and is driven back hard and that is when as the union drops back on to Warrenton turnpike that Hood starts to drive and the rest of Longstreet follows. I'm sorry but the wait that Longstreet did hurt anychance of closing on the union with good effect from both sides with Jackson's lines being tired and hit hard. You said he waited till they stretched there line he didn't move till the Union were being pushed back. Sorry my belief still is he sat to long and did not nail the coffin when he should have.
The basic position of the Union forces show that Longstreet was correct in waiting. Porter was on the extreme Union left before moving up to attack the Deep Cut area. Had Longstreet immediately pitched in, he would have had Porter facing his flank and rear. Not only that, but the PA Reserves were shifted to help Porter. Had Longstreet pitched in, he would have faced an entire division instead of Warren's two regiments.
Respectfully
__________________ Up men, and to your post! And let no man forget today that you are from old Virginia!
nbforrest,
my apologies, I was unclear. Sentence 2 and 3 of the section quoted in yr 6:31 post of this evening refers to chancellorsville, not bristoe station. I just used Hill attack to show the results were not of a flanking maneuver even though the campaign might have been.
respectfully
matt
Ok, that makes more sense now.
But again, Lee wasn't at Bristoe. So he can't be faulted for not maneuvering Warren out of position.
As for Chancellorsville, Lee did a great job of maneuvering...and his attacks worked. He did a masterful job of juggling his troops and hammering back the II and XII Corps. Hancock wasn't really in a position to be swept up by a flank attack. The attacking Rebs were in such a mess that trying to sort anything out would have been futile.
Seems to me that if Longstreet had been there instead of Jackson the attack would have gone smoother.
Respectfully
__________________ Up men, and to your post! And let no man forget today that you are from old Virginia!
ach, I meant to say the wilderness 1864 for sentence two and three, I'm sorry, finals induced senior moment. Concerning britoe, I wasn't faulting lee, but hill should have done more to scout the flanks especially manpower was the least affordable resource the CSA could waste
Last edited by milhistbuff1; 12-16-2005 at 09:51 PM.
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