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I did promise to try and research the Lorenz Rifle. Since I do life in this country you should think this would be a fairly easy task. Well, let me tell you:
The museum of military history does not hold nor is aware of any documents in which a sale of those Rifles to the U.S. or C.S. is mentioned!
So as far as Austria is concerned: We did not sell any war materials to the americas during the period of their civil war.
Ain't that funny!
Well, those documents could have been destroyed during or after WWI or WWII.
Anyways: I am still awaiting answere from our National Archive.
This now actually makes research about the quality of the rifles delivered almost impossible.
Maybe there are documents in the U.S.?
Regards
Handy
__________________ 5th Georgia Volunteer Infantry Austria (http://cr.wcc.at)
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Brooks Light Artillery Austria
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You can start with Bill Edward's classic book, Civil War Guns. Joe Bilby discusses the Austrian Lorenz in his new book, The Guns at Gettysburg. Try inter-library loan if you don't want to buy a copy.
I did promise to try and research the Lorenz Rifle. Since I do life in this country you should think this would be a fairly easy task. Well, let me tell you:
The museum of military history does not hold nor is aware of any documents in which a sale of those Rifles to the U.S. or C.S. is mentioned!
So as far as Austria is concerned: We did not sell any war materials to the americas during the period of their civil war.
Ain't that funny!
Well, those documents could have been destroyed during or after WWI or WWII.
Anyways: I am still awaiting answere from our National Archive.
This now actually makes research about the quality of the rifles delivered almost impossible.
Maybe there are documents in the U.S.?
Regards
Handy
Generally speaking, in the period starting very late in 1860 and ending in early 1862, Europe was awash with people seeking to buy arms for the American Civil War. Few of them were official government representatives. They were usually private individuals, sometimes with a minimal government paper authorization. They might be buying for the Federal/Confederate government, individual state governments on either side, private enterprise, etc. They were often competing with one another for the same weapons, bidding up the prices. They were also competing with the other side to make sure the Confederates/Federals didn't get them.
As this relates to the national arsenals and armories in Europe, I have heard that the European governments would refuse to sell arms directly to the Americans. They would, however, sell arms to their own nationals, who would then turn around and sell them to the American market (i.e., the highest bidder) with or without modifications to American requirements. Obviously, some huge profits were made here, with a lot of pockets being lined along the way.
I have also heard that the French, Austrian, etc. arsenals took this as an opportunity to get rid of poor or obsolete weapons while buying newer, more modern weapons from the manufacturers with the proceeds.
So a lot of what the Federals/Confederates got was 2nd rate material, which they purchased privately -- not from governments.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
"Austrian rifle" was the term used in official docs and was generic referring to several different makes and models.
Only where a document states the caliber as .54 will you know it is the Lorenz.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
The M1854 Lorenz was the second most common imported long arm in use during the Civil War; second only to the excellent P53 Enfield. The Lorenz Rifle Musket is a study in contradictions; some men thought them the finest arm they ever handled while others despised it so much they replaced them, at the first opportunity, with anything they could get their hands on.
Part of the reason for the disparity of opinion was that the Lorenz was not a truly interchangeable arm; it was in fact a hold over from an earlier time with many parts more familiar to a flintlock arm. Individual gunsmiths from various points of Austria manufactured the Lorenz in great numbers to varying personal standards by hand fitting parts instead of machine making. Despite this it was a simple and robust design that was generally well thought of. At 52.75” long and just eight pounds it was shorter and lighter than its contemporaries. It was the first arm of the Austrian infantry of the line to fire a bullet designed to expand and grip the rifling in a barrel. Combined with an absolutely brutal four sided bayonet it was a weapon well fitted to the tactics of the mid 19th century. The front site was unusual in that its base was installed at an angle to match an angled slot on the bayonet. The Lorenz was originally designed with a simple block rear site for Line Infantry use. However, many were issued with a high quality flip site with two windows graduated to 900 yards for the use of riflemen. The M1854 left Austrian arsenals with a variety of finishes: bright, blued or browned. Most had a raised cheek piece but some are found without. Originally issued in .54 caliber many that found themselves in North America were rebored to .58 caliber... though as Army ordnance records show them in a variety of calibers from .54 to .61 that project may not have been as effective as intended. The CS tested a variety of arms and rated the M1854 Lorenz as the equal to the P53 out to 500 yards. That it was still in the field, both North & South, in 1865 speaks volumes of the quality of the arm.
Several hundred thousand were sold to the US and CS. The Confederate Army of Tennessee was largely armed with the .54 Lorenz; while not as well liked as the P53 they gave outstanding service until the very end. Most specimens still in existence show evidence of hard use. Well over 100,000 M1854 Lorenz’s were imported by the CS.
Those in Union service were as well appreciated as those in CS. Elements of the Iron Brigade put them to good service at Antietam and Gettysburg and they saw hard use at Shiloh, Iuka and Corinth. They were not replaced in Union service except with the excellent M1861 Springfield. The US imported upward to 250,000.
The M1854 Lorenz is one of the most under appreciated arms of the Civil War. With only one manufacturer of a reproduction for the re-enacting community it is also one of the most under represented arms in the living history community. Thankfully Loyalist Arms is making great efforts to create a faithful reproduction; and while their initial run had some glaring discrepancies they have promised to correct those errors in the future.
This was the most common Austrian arm imported into North America. But the "Engineers" & "Jaeger" models were also imported along w/ a variety of smoothbores of Austrain origin. The Jaeger in particular was well liked by both US & CS Cav and heavily used in the western theatre. When I get home I'll look up a couple books that might provide decent info.
Ironicly many Lorenz pattern weapons were converted to breach loaders or to flintlock for sale in the African trade. And Lorenz breach loading conversions were used in WW1, I would expect that few survived the scrap drives of War 1 & 2.
I've seen more than a dozen M1854 Lorenz conversions to flintlock in the last year. A good smith could easily put it back to percussion but I don't have the money to do such.
Austria sold cannon, rifles, muskets & swords to both the US & CS. MOst of what they sold were the obsolete models. Ready cash was greatly appreciated and they got plenty of it. At the latter half of the war they got burned some by the CS w/ promisary notes of cotton in trade... which never made it out through the blocade.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Whisker, James A., Hartzler, Daniel D. & Yantz, Larry W., Firearms from Europe, Tom Rowe Books, 2002.
I think would be a good start on some particulars. i should be able to look at it tonight. If you have any specific questions let me know & I'll see what my references have to say.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
The biggest issue w/ the Lorenz was that they were not interchangeable and were hand fitted. Thus you have a variety of different Smith's w/ their own idea of how things should fit. Needless to say that can lead to serious quality control issues from one batch to the next.
The Lorenz was available in both .54 & .58. Along w/ several other Austrain arms, so the idea that if it is identified as .54 Austrain it automaticly indicates Lorenz... is an inaccurate generalization.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Handy; here are a few CS units known to have carried the M1854 Lorenz. 40,41,43 & 52nd GA Infantry, Cockrells Missouri Brigade, 2nd NC Cav, 9/ 11,12, 29 & 47th TN Inf, 8th TX Cav w/ the CS purchasing at least 100,000. US purchases amounted to near to a quarter million. CS use of the weapon was from Glorietta Pass to Appomatox and all points between.
Other Austrian Arms sometimes accused of being the "Lorenz" are:M1840 "Pill-lock," M1842 (musket, rifle & carbine), M1849 "Garibaldi," M1850 tube lock, M1854 Jaegerstutzen, & very limited numbers of the M1858 and they ranged from Cal .715 down to .54. Add to that various Austrian pistols which saw service to include M1798, M1842 & M1859 horse pistols.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
If you are looking for Lorentz information, I would head to the North-South Skirmish Association board and post a question for Don Dixon. He's working on a book on the Austrian Civil War small arms.
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Austrian Lorenz Rilfe 
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