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  #11  
Old 09-08-2008, 04:08 PM
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I dunno too much about this sutler stuff but maybe the Hokey-Pokey really is "what it's all about"....
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  #12  
Old 09-08-2008, 05:12 PM
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That did kind of get away with itself, didn't it. With Battalion, I kinda wanted to know what the sutler kept in stock and sold. It's quite obvious now that he kept in stock what would sell. If the guys don't want a bar of soap, he's wasting his time and money trying to sell one. If the guys are in the mood for some risque French playing cards, he'd be some sort of fool for not having a deck behind the counter.

Have we answered Battalion's question yet?

ole
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  #13  
Old 09-08-2008, 05:38 PM
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I think so Ole. Seems there is no hard and fast answer, at least not from what I can ascertain. It would however, be an interesting area of study for...say.. a Master's thesis or the such, dontcha think?
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  #14  
Old 09-08-2008, 09:27 PM
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They sold what they could sell and make a profit on. If it was something the soldier actually needed all the better.

Buttons of all sorts for the "housewife," suspenders aka bracers, candles, paper, they weren't suposed to sell liquor... yeah right. Cards, cups, books anything theyt thought would make them some change.
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  #15  
Old 09-09-2008, 12:11 AM
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You may go for your Master's, Matt. I like the idea that the sutler would stock anything he could get and hope to sell. Sounds like a staple would have been writing paper, envelopes and stamps. I don't recollect reading that this was regular army issue, but I do recollect reading that those who could write home, did.

So let's dig a little deeper. Were there sutlers accompanying the Rebs?
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  #16  
Old 09-09-2008, 01:22 AM
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I can't honestly see why not, but judging by the joy the Rebels had at capturing loot from Union ones (and all the exotic/cool stuff), and the lack of wagons and beasts of burden to spare, I'm inclined to say: No.

But surely someone can prove otherwise. It just doesn't make sense that only Union troops would have 'em.
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  #17  
Old 09-09-2008, 01:33 AM
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To All,

From the book, Corporal Si Klegg And His "Pard." How They Lived And Talked, And What They Did And Suffered,While Fighting For The Flag. by Wilbur F. Hinman, Late Lieutenant-Colonel Sixty-fifth Regiment, Ohio Veteran Volunteer Infantry.

Taken from Chapter XV, page 212-213, The Sutler:

"Like all raw soldiers, Si Klegg learned with exceeding great joy, that there was such a person in the army as the sutler. It was usually many weeks--months in some cases--before the new troops could become reconciled to the regulation diet, and this gave the sutler his opportunity. He reaped a rich harvest and made a fortune, provided he had a fair chance at a new regiment for six months. But his business enterprise had its drawbacks. When the army was on the jump he often had a hard time of it. He usually had a couple of large wagons, in which he transported his goods and the big tent that he pitched as often as circumstances would permit. Of course he had to furnish his own teams, and half a dozen men, black and white, to manage them and do his work. He always had to look out for himself and take his own chances. A sutler's wagon was a "bonanza" to a band of rebel "looters," and he often suffered in this way from the capture of his entire outfit. This was, however, but a temporary reverse, for he would mark up the prices on his next load of goods and thus retrieve his loss.

If his wagons stuck in the mud, or his mule-power was insufficient to pull them up a steep hill, the boys might lend a hand to help him out; but if they did they wanted a good share of what he had as compensation for their services. If he demurred they would settle the matter by helping themselves. He was regarded as an Ishmaelite, and every man's hand was against him. If a wagon capsized, the scattered boxes and cans and bottles of eatables and drinkables were deemed legitimate plunder, and a nightly foray upon the "shebang" was considered justifiable larceny. When the soldiers ran out of money the sutler issued "checks," to be redeemed the next pay-day. When a battle intervened, or the hardships of campaigning sent scores to the hospitals, the sutler failed to realize. Then up would go the prices again, to make good the deficit. The sutler did not like the smell of powder, and when a fight was imminent he prudently stayed behind. When all was quiet again he would crack his whip, push to the front, and open up his seductive stock. The sutler of a full, new regiment sometimes took desperate chances in following it closely, for the money rolled in at a rate most gratifying to that worshiper of mammon. When the paymaster was around he never failed to be there."

Also in various other chapters of the book, some of the items the sutler sold to soldiers was described. Some of the items listed were:

A sheet of paper and an envelope, ten cents.
3 cent stamp, sold for ten cents!
pencils
cans of preserved fruit, and vegetables.
Canned lobster.
Canned peaches.
Tins of sardines.
Canned milk sold for what the book described as a "weeks wages" for a soldier.
Canned salt pork.
Canned Pork and Beans.
Cigars.
Coffee.
Wines and spirits (when permitted by the regimental commander).

I'll see if I can find a list of sutler inventory for you in my internet searches.

I found a website for a paper on the Northeast Ohio Journal of History which listed a PDF document with the following on sutlers:

"In 1862 the Senate Committee on Military Affairs suggested limiting sutlers to a specific list of products they could sell. The non-food items listed were:

candles, wallets, brooms, comforters, boots, pocket-looking glasses, tin glasses, tin wash basins, shirt-buttons, horn and brass buttons, newspapers, books, tobacco, segars (sic), pipes, matches, blacking, blacking-brushes, clothes-brushes, tooth-brushes, hair-brushes, coarse and fine combs, emery, crocus, pocket-handkerchiefs, stationary, armor-oil, sweet-oil, rotten stone, razor-straps, razors, shaving soap, soap, suspenders, scissors, shoe-strings, needles, thread, knives, pencils and bristol-brick...

The food items suggested by the Committee were apples, dried apples, oranges, figs, lemons, butter, cheese, milk, sirup-molasses (sic), raisins and crackers...

The list compiled by the Senate Committee on Military Affairs in 1862 did not represent one-tenth of what sutlers were selling at the time.

"Several millions of dollars have been paid to this army within a fortnight, and how the sutlers do thrive! Communication with the North is so easy, and the army being quite permanently located, sutlers and their goods are allowed to come to the front, that all the luxuries of the season abound. One may see any morning at City Point and Bermuda Hundred, heaps of mellow apples, peaches, and vegetables that would not discredit Washington and Fulton markets. Fresh fish, not twenty-four hours from the sea, fresh figs, not twenty-four hours from the tree ("in the name of the prophet, Figs!") and "Syllabubs and jellies and wines, pies, and other such lady-like things," all brought from the vicinity of Norfolk, may be had of your enterprising sutler, if one can bear the swindle. Mr. Sutler often deals in literature. He will sell you the "atlantic" or "Harper's" for a half a dollar, the latest novel for twice the sale price printed on the cover, or he will sell you a half-dozen rolls of cough candy, or quinine by the dose, or a pair of spurs, or a shirt, or perfumed notepaper, fit for letters to your swetheart. He keeps postage stamps. He deals in Bibles. He has several cords of canned fruits and half a dozen barrels of eggs, nature's own device in the way of canned fruit. In the way of cutlery, pocket knives and cork-screws he is sure to have, scissors usually, and surgical instruments occasionally. Great is the sutler. Like Shakespeare, he is "a many-sided man." Like Sam Slick's wife, one cannot live without him nor scarcely with him. Like the Miller's Daughter, he has "grown so dear, so dear." Like Robinson Crusoe, "has right there is none to dispute."

Anything, including liquor, could be had. Senator James H. Lane of Kansas proclaimed, "The only way...that you can keep spirituous liquors out of an army is by keeping sutlers out of the army." Harvey Reid wrote home that the Sutler of the Thirty-First Wisconsin sold beer and whiskey. He indicated his regret that the practice was permitted because someone in the regiment was always intoxicated since payday. Reid's letter was dated December 1863, and indicates that the practice of sutlers selling alcohol continued despite legislation to the contrary passed in March 1862."


Hope the above helps with your question.

Unionblue
Pickles.
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Last edited by unionblue; 09-09-2008 at 02:43 AM.
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  #18  
Old 09-09-2008, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Unionblue
Pickles.
You couldn't know how close to home that hits. I'm a freak for pickles. I am such a freak for pickles that I make my own. Simply because nobody else makes them like I want them. I make and cheerfully eat pickles that no sane person would admit to. My son pretends to belly up and professes a fondness for them. He lies. I give him a quart or two every other year or so and I just know he flushes them. But that is a son's job. If it makes him feel good. Lie.

So. Do you want my mustard pickle recipe or are you all talk?

ole
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  #19  
Old 09-09-2008, 02:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ole View Post
You couldn't know how close to home that hits. I'm a freak for pickles. I am such a freak for pickles that I make my own. Simply because nobody else makes them like I want them. I make and cheerfully eat pickles that no sane person would admit to. My son pretends to belly up and professes a fondness for them. He lies. I give him a quart or two every other year or so and I just know he flushes them. But that is a son's job. If it makes him feel good. Lie.

So. Do you want my mustard pickle recipe or are you all talk?

ole
ole,

I can handle a dare.

Send it.

Unionblue, pickle lover extarodinare!
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  #20  
Old 09-09-2008, 06:32 AM
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My wife makes period pickles, relishes, chetney etc... I never knew there were so many different kinds of pickles and I like most of them.
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